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Apple's PC sales are a rapidly diminishing part of their business, and the share made up by hackers far smaller still. They're perfectly happy to let those dev

Apple's PC sales are a rapidly diminishing part of their business, and the share made up by hackers far smaller still. They're perfectly happy to let those devs for whom up-to-date tools and FOSS are important go elsewhere; look at any college classroom and you'll see they have way more new customers to replace them. This isn't to say they'll actively discourage hackers from using their products, but if it comes down to a product being hack-friendly or adhering to Apple's core principles, hack-friendliness doesn't stand a chance.

alwillis 15y ago
Actually, Apple's PC business has never been better. They sold 5,198,000 Macs last quarter, a record. Mac sales are up 26% compared to the same quarter last year. Of course they sold 37 million iPhones, but the amount of revenue the Mac generates isn’t small by any means. I don’t have a problem with them not shipping software that’s incompatible with how they do business; I suspect hackers and other clueful users will continue using the available tools like Homebrew to install whatever they want.
- nilsbunger 15y ago
  If Apple is driven by profit, then the main purpose of Mac, iPod, and even iPad these days is to sell more iPhones (brand halo and integration). Isn't that crazy? Macs were only 14% of revenue last quarter ($6.6B/46.3B). By contrast, iPhones were 52% ($14.4B). And Macs have ~28% gross margin, while iPhones have ~60%, so they add even less than 14% to the profit picture. While any other PC manufacturer would die to have Apple's Mac business, it's mouse-nuts to Apple.
  - batista 15y ago
    Its also a stable base. The iPad might or the iPhone might die off to some competitive product, Andoid or whatever, but, as long as PC = Windows, there will be a large market for Macs (no, most people wont consider Linux)
    - alperakgun 15y ago
      once macs have died, and i was there an 18year old mac c++ programmer. believe me many things like that can happen again in tech world.
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  My statement, which was apparently unclear, is that PCs represent a declining share of Apple's business, and that hackers represent a declining share of that. That's not to say both aren't growing, but that neither is the keystone of Apple's future growth and success.
YooLi 15y ago
"Apple's PC sales are a rapidly diminishing part of their business..." Flat out BS. Take a second and look up the numbers.
- ghshephard 15y ago
  Actually - that part is quite true - but it's only because the iPhone (and iPad) is such a rapidly _increasing_ part of their business.
  - redthrowaway 15y ago
    Thank you. I didn't expect that to be such a controversial statement. Allow me to clarify: the share of apple's revenue generated by its pc business is rapidly falling. It has been supplanted by ios devices.
- nilsbunger 15y ago
  Actually, it is true. In particular, profit-wise the Mac business is tiny, less than 10% of profits. They could shut down Mac and you would barely notice in their next earnings statement. I wish it weren't so, because I love my Mac. But Apple's future is iOS, not Mac OS. Maybe someday they'll merge and it'll all be one thing?
  - spacemanaki 15y ago
    I love my Mac because it's NOT iOS. I just can't see how all-software-from-the-app-store would be able to support the beautiful mess of tools I use every single day.
    - SoftwareMaven 15y ago
      I agree. The day that happens is the day I (sadly) go back to Linux for my dev environment.
  - lisperforlife 15y ago
    Actually it would hurt their iOS market greatly. iOS devices are worthless without their third party apps. And these apps can only be produced on a Mac. In fact, I bought my Mac so that I could build iOS apps. If not for 3rd party apps, it would simply boil down to the device, the software that Apple ships with and the browser. Android devices will clearly win hands down in such a scenario. Initially it would be the case of worse is better but over time it would overtake iOS devices in terms of features and sales.
ghshephard 15y ago
"the share made up by hackers far smaller still." Apple laptops like the MacBook Air are pretty popular amongst your average hacker crowd. You still get a reasonable Terminal Application and most of what you are (basically) looking for from a Unix text environment.
- hollerith 15y ago
  Grandparent said hackers make up a small fraction of Apple's customers, not that Apple is unpopular among hackers.
  - ghshephard 15y ago
    Well, that's true only insofar that _all_ non IOS customers are making up a smaller fraction of Apple's customers. Within the PC/Laptop Crowd, I think the technical enthusiast/Hacker group is pretty important to that product line. They certainly put a lot more effort into their Terminal Application than Microsoft does. Does Microsoft even offer a Terminal Application? I typically download SecureCRT/Putty. Also - Does microsoft come with SSH? I guess the point I'm trying to make is "Hackers are important to Apple, insofar that that Macintosh PC/Laptop line is important to Apple."
    - bradleyjg 15y ago
      PowerShell (Windows' shell as of 7) is actually really nice, but it doesn't make any attempt at all to ease the transition to and from *nix shells.
      - evilduck 15y ago
        The shell itself is ok, but it still has a rubbish interface / terminal emulator. It's a Corvette engine wrapped in a rusted out Yugo chassis.
      - josephcooney 15y ago
        It has aliases for a few built in unix commands... but could be more harmful than helpful. Like Javascript, C++ and Java all have 'similar' syntaxes.
rikf 15y ago
Its important to note that one of the main things that differentiates between platforms is the quality and quantity of the available content. If you want to build a platform the first things to do is build great development tools for that platform at making it a platform that is attractive to developers and power users. This strategy has been critical in resurgence of Apple and I doubt that they would want to become a less attractive development platform.

alwillis 15y ago

Actually, Apple's PC business has never been better. They sold 5,198,000 Macs last quarter, a record. Mac sales are up 26% compared to the same quarter last year. Of course they sold 37 million iPhones, but the amount of revenue the Mac generates isn’t small by any means. I don’t have a problem with them not shipping software that’s incompatible with how they do business; I suspect hackers and other clueful users will continue using the available tools like Homebrew to install whatever they want.

nilsbunger 15y ago
If Apple is driven by profit, then the main purpose of Mac, iPod, and even iPad these days is to sell more iPhones (brand halo and integration). Isn't that crazy? Macs were only 14% of revenue last quarter ($6.6B/46.3B). By contrast, iPhones were 52% ($14.4B). And Macs have ~28% gross margin, while iPhones have ~60%, so they add even less than 14% to the profit picture. While any other PC manufacturer would die to have Apple's Mac business, it's mouse-nuts to Apple.
- batista 15y ago
  Its also a stable base. The iPad might or the iPhone might die off to some competitive product, Andoid or whatever, but, as long as PC = Windows, there will be a large market for Macs (no, most people wont consider Linux)
  - alperakgun 15y ago
    once macs have died, and i was there an 18year old mac c++ programmer. believe me many things like that can happen again in tech world.
redthrowaway 15y ago
My statement, which was apparently unclear, is that PCs represent a declining share of Apple's business, and that hackers represent a declining share of that. That's not to say both aren't growing, but that neither is the keystone of Apple's future growth and success.

YooLi 15y ago

"Apple's PC sales are a rapidly diminishing part of their business..." Flat out BS. Take a second and look up the numbers.

ghshephard 15y ago
Actually - that part is quite true - but it's only because the iPhone (and iPad) is such a rapidly _increasing_ part of their business.
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  Thank you. I didn't expect that to be such a controversial statement. Allow me to clarify: the share of apple's revenue generated by its pc business is rapidly falling. It has been supplanted by ios devices.
nilsbunger 15y ago
Actually, it is true. In particular, profit-wise the Mac business is tiny, less than 10% of profits. They could shut down Mac and you would barely notice in their next earnings statement. I wish it weren't so, because I love my Mac. But Apple's future is iOS, not Mac OS. Maybe someday they'll merge and it'll all be one thing?
- spacemanaki 15y ago
  I love my Mac because it's NOT iOS. I just can't see how all-software-from-the-app-store would be able to support the beautiful mess of tools I use every single day.
  - SoftwareMaven 15y ago
    I agree. The day that happens is the day I (sadly) go back to Linux for my dev environment.
- lisperforlife 15y ago
  Actually it would hurt their iOS market greatly. iOS devices are worthless without their third party apps. And these apps can only be produced on a Mac. In fact, I bought my Mac so that I could build iOS apps. If not for 3rd party apps, it would simply boil down to the device, the software that Apple ships with and the browser. Android devices will clearly win hands down in such a scenario. Initially it would be the case of worse is better but over time it would overtake iOS devices in terms of features and sales.

ghshephard 15y ago

"the share made up by hackers far smaller still." Apple laptops like the MacBook Air are pretty popular amongst your average hacker crowd. You still get a reasonable Terminal Application and most of what you are (basically) looking for from a Unix text environment.

hollerith 15y ago
Grandparent said hackers make up a small fraction of Apple's customers, not that Apple is unpopular among hackers.
- ghshephard 15y ago
  Well, that's true only insofar that _all_ non IOS customers are making up a smaller fraction of Apple's customers. Within the PC/Laptop Crowd, I think the technical enthusiast/Hacker group is pretty important to that product line. They certainly put a lot more effort into their Terminal Application than Microsoft does. Does Microsoft even offer a Terminal Application? I typically download SecureCRT/Putty. Also - Does microsoft come with SSH? I guess the point I'm trying to make is "Hackers are important to Apple, insofar that that Macintosh PC/Laptop line is important to Apple."
  - bradleyjg 15y ago
    PowerShell (Windows' shell as of 7) is actually really nice, but it doesn't make any attempt at all to ease the transition to and from *nix shells.
    - evilduck 15y ago
      The shell itself is ok, but it still has a rubbish interface / terminal emulator. It's a Corvette engine wrapped in a rusted out Yugo chassis.
    - josephcooney 15y ago
      It has aliases for a few built in unix commands... but could be more harmful than helpful. Like Javascript, C++ and Java all have 'similar' syntaxes.

rikf 15y ago

Its important to note that one of the main things that differentiates between platforms is the quality and quantity of the available content. If you want to build a platform the first things to do is build great development tools for that platform at making it a platform that is attractive to developers and power users. This strategy has been critical in resurgence of Apple and I doubt that they would want to become a less attractive development platform.