7 ms·

You're dreading giving other people the freedom to make one choice, and yourself the freedom to make a different choice (yours being the default option from the

You're dreading giving other people the freedom to make one choice, and yourself the freedom to make a different choice (yours being the default option from the factory btw), and everyone gets the privacy/control tradeoff they want?

Spivak 3y ago
Software isn't fungible and right now today you have the ability to install facebook with app store restrictions on iOS and without on Android. If FB pulls from the app store that choice is taken away.
- 1over137 3y ago
  >today you have the ability to install facebook with app store restrictions on iOS and without on Android You have a third choice: don't install facebook at all.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    You see how that's worse right? Either give up your privacy or don't use FB. On iOS you can have both.
    - dvngnt_ 3y ago
      you have zero privacy on Facebook.
    - lolinder 3y ago
      > On iOS you can have both. No, you can't. You can have some protections against the most egregious overreaches, but if you're concerned about privacy you shouldn't be on Facebook, ever, on any platform. Aside from that, there's no way Facebook will remove themselves from the app store. Apple isn't going to make sideloading easy enough for the average Facebook user.
      - Spivak 3y ago
        No, you can't. And if you could, the protections aren't that good. And if they were, it's not going to happen anyway. And if it does, that's Apple's fault for making it too easy. And even so, you deserve it anyway for using Facebook. I don't think is the argument you think it is. It's basically "nuh-uh" while agreeing with all the arguments in favor no sideloading along the way. Facebook has 2.95 billion MAUs and 73% of the entire US population actively use it, 93% of businesses are on it -- "just don't use Facebook" is a woefully out of touch take. And this is only Facebook and doesn't include IG and WhatsApp. Meta is 4/4 of the most downloaded apps.
        stcroixx 3y ago
        That 73% number sounds fudged. I’m sure they have some justification, but they’re proven liars.
        lolinder 3y ago
        > "just don't use Facebook" is a woefully out of touch take It's worked for me so far, and we're way past peak Facebook, so I don't see myself needing to use it in the future. Businesses still have phone numbers, and none of my friends or family are active on any Meta platform. I really don't think it's the pillar of society that you seem to think it is.
    - waboremo 3y ago
      If you care about privacy you wouldn't be using Facebook on any platform.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      You're confused on hows removing your privacy in this example though. The recent-ish changes to iOS protects your privacy from FB. So, yeah, your choice is use FB or don't. It has always been this way. The app store is not the bad guy in the FB conversation.
    - ThatPlayer 3y ago
      You can also do it the same way I use Facebook on my desktop without install an app that gives up my privacy. Open up my browser and type in www dot facebook dot com. You'll get all the privacy protection that Safari on The App Store gives you. I think they even have a PWA now if you really want an icon to make it easier.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- zamadatix 3y ago
  Play has restrictions they are just less strict than the App Store. Similarly on iOS if people are choosing iOS for this vetting then it follows Facebook would not be able to migrate to being a 3rd party app just because the option is there. All else being equal it's actually quite hard to get most users to use anything but the default store anyways, as is seen on Android.
- Rhedox 3y ago
  It's the OS that ensures privacy, security and sandboxing, not the App Store.
  - zamadatix 3y ago
    On some things but not others. E.g. OS protections don't limit against things like "Displaying targeted advertisements in your app based on user data collected from apps and websites owned by other companies." as it's not something the OS can really know is happening, just that there are ads being loaded.
    - harold_b 3y ago
      The OS can control the data the app has access to for fingerprinting, with enough restrictions apps like Facebook would still have to rely on guesswork to do so
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - zamadatix 3y ago
        The OS can only stop fingerprinting of the hardware while the app is generating a fingerprint of the user. The latter is more valuable anyways since most users use more than 1 device and change those devices over time. You can't solve a behavior problem with OS controls. It's not about what bits on the device are readable it's about what happens with the identity information shared with 3rd parties.
bena 3y ago
I think you're missing something. Meta makes the Facebook app. Currently, the only way to get the Facebook app on iOS is through Apple's App Store. Which means Meta has to follow all of Apple's guidelines. Once sideloading is allowed, Meta can make a version of their app that does not follow Apple's guidelines. Now, they can maintain two apps, but last time I checked, the cost of maintaining one app was lower than the cost of maintaining two. Eventually, the App Store version will no longer work with Facebook's API. Or the iOS version, or a third thing. There will only be the sideloaded option. I don't have the freedom to choose the version of the app I want. And now I can't actually trust any of the apps out there because none of them are required to follow any of Apple's guidelines.
- cageface 3y ago
  This hasn’t happened on Android where side loading and alternative app stores have been available for years. Why would iOS be different?
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Because Google doesn't give a fuck about what apps pull off until there's media outrage. It took them years to implement basic privacy features.
  - j16sdiz 3y ago
    Because play store have less rules? FB can steal all your photo and play store couldn't care less.
  - yamtaddle 3y ago
    Facebook hasn't recently blamed the Play Store rules for their losing a shitload of money. They have so-blamed iOS App Store rules. Basically, they have far less incentive to try to push a side-loaded version of their app, or to try to create an alternative app store, on Android.
- twelve40 3y ago
  > There will only be the sideloaded option how did you come to that conclusion? certainly not true in the android world. I don't have the stats on prevalence of sideloadong vs. play, but all official apps are alive and well in play after decades of being able to sideload
mattrighetti 3y ago
> You're dreading giving other people the freedom to make one choice Users made this choice when they bought an Apple product in the first place. Everybody knows well in advance that this is the current state of things, that is a well-informed choice by the end user.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  I did not know that side loading was impossible when I choose the ios ecosystem. I mainly chose it because the green texts made communicating difficult. Now I'm locked in.

Spivak 3y ago

Software isn't fungible and right now today you have the ability to install facebook with app store restrictions on iOS and without on Android. If FB pulls from the app store that choice is taken away.

1over137 3y ago
>today you have the ability to install facebook with app store restrictions on iOS and without on Android You have a third choice: don't install facebook at all.
- Spivak 3y ago
  You see how that's worse right? Either give up your privacy or don't use FB. On iOS you can have both.
  - dvngnt_ 3y ago
    you have zero privacy on Facebook.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    > On iOS you can have both. No, you can't. You can have some protections against the most egregious overreaches, but if you're concerned about privacy you shouldn't be on Facebook, ever, on any platform. Aside from that, there's no way Facebook will remove themselves from the app store. Apple isn't going to make sideloading easy enough for the average Facebook user.
    - Spivak 3y ago
      No, you can't. And if you could, the protections aren't that good. And if they were, it's not going to happen anyway. And if it does, that's Apple's fault for making it too easy. And even so, you deserve it anyway for using Facebook. I don't think is the argument you think it is. It's basically "nuh-uh" while agreeing with all the arguments in favor no sideloading along the way. Facebook has 2.95 billion MAUs and 73% of the entire US population actively use it, 93% of businesses are on it -- "just don't use Facebook" is a woefully out of touch take. And this is only Facebook and doesn't include IG and WhatsApp. Meta is 4/4 of the most downloaded apps.
      - stcroixx 3y ago
        That 73% number sounds fudged. I’m sure they have some justification, but they’re proven liars.
      - lolinder 3y ago
        > "just don't use Facebook" is a woefully out of touch take It's worked for me so far, and we're way past peak Facebook, so I don't see myself needing to use it in the future. Businesses still have phone numbers, and none of my friends or family are active on any Meta platform. I really don't think it's the pillar of society that you seem to think it is.
  - waboremo 3y ago
    If you care about privacy you wouldn't be using Facebook on any platform.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    You're confused on hows removing your privacy in this example though. The recent-ish changes to iOS protects your privacy from FB. So, yeah, your choice is use FB or don't. It has always been this way. The app store is not the bad guy in the FB conversation.
  - ThatPlayer 3y ago
    You can also do it the same way I use Facebook on my desktop without install an app that gives up my privacy. Open up my browser and type in www dot facebook dot com. You'll get all the privacy protection that Safari on The App Store gives you. I think they even have a PWA now if you really want an icon to make it easier.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
zamadatix 3y ago
Play has restrictions they are just less strict than the App Store. Similarly on iOS if people are choosing iOS for this vetting then it follows Facebook would not be able to migrate to being a 3rd party app just because the option is there. All else being equal it's actually quite hard to get most users to use anything but the default store anyways, as is seen on Android.
Rhedox 3y ago
It's the OS that ensures privacy, security and sandboxing, not the App Store.
- zamadatix 3y ago
  On some things but not others. E.g. OS protections don't limit against things like "Displaying targeted advertisements in your app based on user data collected from apps and websites owned by other companies." as it's not something the OS can really know is happening, just that there are ads being loaded.
  - harold_b 3y ago
    The OS can control the data the app has access to for fingerprinting, with enough restrictions apps like Facebook would still have to rely on guesswork to do so
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - zamadatix 3y ago
      The OS can only stop fingerprinting of the hardware while the app is generating a fingerprint of the user. The latter is more valuable anyways since most users use more than 1 device and change those devices over time. You can't solve a behavior problem with OS controls. It's not about what bits on the device are readable it's about what happens with the identity information shared with 3rd parties.

bena 3y ago

I think you're missing something. Meta makes the Facebook app. Currently, the only way to get the Facebook app on iOS is through Apple's App Store. Which means Meta has to follow all of Apple's guidelines. Once sideloading is allowed, Meta can make a version of their app that does not follow Apple's guidelines. Now, they can maintain two apps, but last time I checked, the cost of maintaining one app was lower than the cost of maintaining two. Eventually, the App Store version will no longer work with Facebook's API. Or the iOS version, or a third thing. There will only be the sideloaded option. I don't have the freedom to choose the version of the app I want. And now I can't actually trust any of the apps out there because none of them are required to follow any of Apple's guidelines.

cageface 3y ago
This hasn’t happened on Android where side loading and alternative app stores have been available for years. Why would iOS be different?
- mschuster91 3y ago
  Because Google doesn't give a fuck about what apps pull off until there's media outrage. It took them years to implement basic privacy features.
- j16sdiz 3y ago
  Because play store have less rules? FB can steal all your photo and play store couldn't care less.
- yamtaddle 3y ago
  Facebook hasn't recently blamed the Play Store rules for their losing a shitload of money. They have so-blamed iOS App Store rules. Basically, they have far less incentive to try to push a side-loaded version of their app, or to try to create an alternative app store, on Android.
twelve40 3y ago
> There will only be the sideloaded option how did you come to that conclusion? certainly not true in the android world. I don't have the stats on prevalence of sideloadong vs. play, but all official apps are alive and well in play after decades of being able to sideload

mattrighetti 3y ago

> You're dreading giving other people the freedom to make one choice Users made this choice when they bought an Apple product in the first place. Everybody knows well in advance that this is the current state of things, that is a well-informed choice by the end user.

HDThoreaun 3y ago
I did not know that side loading was impossible when I choose the ios ecosystem. I mainly chose it because the green texts made communicating difficult. Now I'm locked in.