4 ms·

Mouse Cursor History (and why I made my own)

90 points by nailer 4y ago

nailer 4y ago
Timestamps: History of OS cursors from System 1.0 to recent MacOS, and Windows 1.0 to Windows 10: https://youtu.be/YThelfB2fvg?t=169 https://youtu.be/YThelfB2fvg?t=169 How the current Windows 10 cursor is wonky: https://youtu.be/YThelfB2fvg?t=430 https://youtu.be/YThelfB2fvg?t=430 (probably the most interesting part of the video) He ends up fixing the wonky mouse cursor in Windows and makes the download available in the show notes. http://www.michieldb.nl/other/cursors/ http://www.michieldb.nl/other/cursors/
DonHopkins 4y ago
[flagged]
- throwaway290 4y ago
  It's an exaggeration because bans in question are very local but yeah, I didn't know this was a thing in US/AU...
  - lflfidk 4y ago
    The link about the US is about not using public money to promote a political agenda The link about AU is about one company not using corporate funds to promote a political agenda The link about Saudis Arabia is a wholesale ban on anyone selling rainbow toys because they might be related to the political agenda These things are in no way the same. There is a huge difference in deciding how business or tax funds are appropriated and choosing not to spend those funds promoting a controversial worldview and outright banning expression of support for that worldview, which is what the Saudis did The grandparent post is extremely disingenuous
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      Teachers wearing rainbow colors is using public money to promote political agenda?
      - stonogo 4y ago
        I support their cause, but they are paid with public money and it is well established that school boards can institute dress codes. It's up to the voters whether these are the dress codes they support. Turnover on the school board is the right way to fix this.
        throwaway290 4y ago
        I agree that turning on the school board is right. I just didn't realize this was a thing in US. It seems like these dress codes can be considered pushing a political agenda with public money too, but I don't live in US.
    - DonHopkins 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - Vecr 4y ago
        Did anyone say the rainbow apple logo was a problem? Don't quite a few Christians like rainbows (and rainbow symbols) due to something related to Noah and the flood? I guess that's also political, at least sort of, but I think it's unlikely that someone would have an issue with the beach ball cursor or an Apple Computer logo.
    - tomhoward 4y ago
      > The link about AU is about one company not using corporate funds to promote a political agenda Slight correction: it's one federal government minister setting a rule in 2021 for his own department and being broadly criticized. He is no longer in office (he is now opposition leader and seems to be quite an unsuccessful/unpopular one if recent by-election results are any indicator). So yes, it's very hyperbolic to suggest these are "going to get banned in ... Australia".
SKRUZO 4y ago
Been using his cursor pack since I first saw this video a couple of years ago. It was actually a pretty interesting history to learn about, and he made some really nice, simple cursors!
RistrettoMike 4y ago
An excellent YouTube channel, and some excellent cursors —- I’ve used them on all my Windows machines after having found this video last year. Thanks, Posy!
alexb_ 4y ago
I use his mouse cursor pack - it's worth installing and is absolutely awesome. Posy is one of my favorite creators on YouTube currently - his dedication to using zero stock footage, zero stock music (he produces all of the music in his videos!), and very high quality production/in depth knowledge make his videos super amazing to watch.
- notnaut 4y ago
  He’s also got a very strange and endearing sense of humor!
kitsunesoba 4y ago
Great video. I hadn't known of the creator's cursor set, but like him I've found that a black, white-outlined cursor is generally more visible/usable which in combination with the awkward shape of the default Windows cursors led me to install ported macOS cursors on my Windows machines. Under Linux, the white-outlined black cursors that ship with major DEs look good enough as is so there I just use those.
apples_oranges 4y ago
I always assumed the Mac cursor is black just to be different from Windows, but the narrator in the video prefers it black, so maybe it is just another small thing that Apple got right and Microsoft didn't. btw. random fact: the Mac cursor stays the same when switching to dark mode. Just something I checked just now (I don't usually use dark mode).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jameshart 4y ago
  The inverse (Windows deliberately not looking like Mac) seems likely to have been at least partially responsible. Apple were litigious about their design language - with the ‘trash can’ being a particular point of contention. Microsoft were probably at least a little cautious about looking too Mac-like. Indeed Apple in the end did sue MS for stealing ’look and feel’ elements in 1988 (literally the context in which the term look-and-feel was popularized), ultimately unsuccessfully - except for the trash can being recognized as distinctive enough to not be allowed to be copied, leading to Windows’ 90s classic ‘recycle bin’.
- adzm 4y ago
  You can invert the cursor color on windows fwiw
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    You can change the colors (the default is black with a white outline, not just black) on Mac, too.
    - kryptiskt 4y ago
      I used to find it irritating that I had to jiggle the mouse to find the cursor, because it doesn't really stick out on screen when it is white or black and I have a lot of screen area. Then I tried turning the cursor yellow with a black border. It is great, it's obvious where it is with a glance now.
grrdotcloud 4y ago
I didn't click but thought "why would you want to log your mouse movements? Analyze them to what end? I suppose you could automate or infer something from the trails? Number of clicks? Keyboard to mouse frequency, time spent. Then started working though the logging, insights while reading the comments. Pressure sensitive mouse buttons may be helpful. Same with haptic feedback when dragging over heavier buttons.
- Krutonium 4y ago
  I still own a Logitech iFeel mouse from the late 90's early 2000's. It's a heavier mouse that offers force feedback on the desktop, specifically as you move over icons and such. It also gave force feedback in games, such as Half Life. Unfortunately on Windows the drivers havn't worked since probably XP, but on Linux I did figure out how to drive the motor, and wrote a PoC to get it working again. It'd need support from the DE and games to really be useful, though.
StuckDuck 4y ago
Woah, I have been watching all of this guy's videos recently, I love how deep he dives into niche topics. His video on segmented displays got me very interested in the clever designs that came out of technical constraints, and challenged me to get back to design a little bit. It's nice to see him linked here
fwlr 4y ago
If I used Windows I would definitely use that cursor pack! Only partially related but Posy is a great creator, his DSM LCD video is one of my all-time favorite videos. https://youtu.be/eGQQWIbD-nM https://youtu.be/eGQQWIbD-nM
jonny_eh 4y ago
Video is from 2018, title should be updated.
webwielder2 4y ago
Possible subtitle: Or How Apple Got It Right Once Again
dabluecaboose 4y ago
Very interesting video! I have to say I have not really considered changing my cursor much since the heyday of ~2006 Myspace cursor type things. I've sent this tab to my home desktop to give it a try when I get home. I often find myself gravitating towards sleeker, flashier looking cursors (like a chevron) but sooner or later get annoyed or confused and switch back to the old angled-triangle-wtih-tail. I'm interested if anyone else has thought more about mouse cursors in recent years and what your findings were!
Kwpolska 4y ago
I tried his cursors for a moment and they looked strange to me. I went back to my cursors of choice, which are the auto-generated black cursors from Windows 10/11. (Accessibility → Mouse pointer and touch → lime cursor → Choose another color → black. It looks good at 1x and 2x.

90 points by nailer 4y ago

Timestamps: History of OS cursors from System 1.0 to recent MacOS, and Windows 1.0 to Windows 10: https://youtu.be/YThelfB2fvg?t=169 https://youtu.be/YThelfB2fvg?t=169 How the current Windows 10 cursor is wonky: https://youtu.be/YThelfB2fvg?t=430 https://youtu.be/YThelfB2fvg?t=430 (probably the most interesting part of the video) He ends up fixing the wonky mouse cursor in Windows and makes the download available in the show notes. http://www.michieldb.nl/other/cursors/ http://www.michieldb.nl/other/cursors/

DonHopkins 4y ago

[flagged]

throwaway290 4y ago
It's an exaggeration because bans in question are very local but yeah, I didn't know this was a thing in US/AU...
- lflfidk 4y ago
  The link about the US is about not using public money to promote a political agenda The link about AU is about one company not using corporate funds to promote a political agenda The link about Saudis Arabia is a wholesale ban on anyone selling rainbow toys because they might be related to the political agenda These things are in no way the same. There is a huge difference in deciding how business or tax funds are appropriated and choosing not to spend those funds promoting a controversial worldview and outright banning expression of support for that worldview, which is what the Saudis did The grandparent post is extremely disingenuous
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    Teachers wearing rainbow colors is using public money to promote political agenda?
    - stonogo 4y ago
      I support their cause, but they are paid with public money and it is well established that school boards can institute dress codes. It's up to the voters whether these are the dress codes they support. Turnover on the school board is the right way to fix this.
      - throwaway290 4y ago
        I agree that turning on the school board is right. I just didn't realize this was a thing in US. It seems like these dress codes can be considered pushing a political agenda with public money too, but I don't live in US.
  - DonHopkins 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Vecr 4y ago
      Did anyone say the rainbow apple logo was a problem? Don't quite a few Christians like rainbows (and rainbow symbols) due to something related to Noah and the flood? I guess that's also political, at least sort of, but I think it's unlikely that someone would have an issue with the beach ball cursor or an Apple Computer logo.
  - tomhoward 4y ago
    > The link about AU is about one company not using corporate funds to promote a political agenda Slight correction: it's one federal government minister setting a rule in 2021 for his own department and being broadly criticized. He is no longer in office (he is now opposition leader and seems to be quite an unsuccessful/unpopular one if recent by-election results are any indicator). So yes, it's very hyperbolic to suggest these are "going to get banned in ... Australia".

SKRUZO 4y ago

Been using his cursor pack since I first saw this video a couple of years ago. It was actually a pretty interesting history to learn about, and he made some really nice, simple cursors!

RistrettoMike 4y ago

An excellent YouTube channel, and some excellent cursors —- I’ve used them on all my Windows machines after having found this video last year. Thanks, Posy!

alexb_ 4y ago

I use his mouse cursor pack - it's worth installing and is absolutely awesome. Posy is one of my favorite creators on YouTube currently - his dedication to using zero stock footage, zero stock music (he produces all of the music in his videos!), and very high quality production/in depth knowledge make his videos super amazing to watch.

notnaut 4y ago
He’s also got a very strange and endearing sense of humor!

kitsunesoba 4y ago

Great video. I hadn't known of the creator's cursor set, but like him I've found that a black, white-outlined cursor is generally more visible/usable which in combination with the awkward shape of the default Windows cursors led me to install ported macOS cursors on my Windows machines. Under Linux, the white-outlined black cursors that ship with major DEs look good enough as is so there I just use those.

apples_oranges 4y ago

I always assumed the Mac cursor is black just to be different from Windows, but the narrator in the video prefers it black, so maybe it is just another small thing that Apple got right and Microsoft didn't. btw. random fact: the Mac cursor stays the same when switching to dark mode. Just something I checked just now (I don't usually use dark mode).

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jameshart 4y ago
The inverse (Windows deliberately not looking like Mac) seems likely to have been at least partially responsible. Apple were litigious about their design language - with the ‘trash can’ being a particular point of contention. Microsoft were probably at least a little cautious about looking too Mac-like. Indeed Apple in the end did sue MS for stealing ’look and feel’ elements in 1988 (literally the context in which the term look-and-feel was popularized), ultimately unsuccessfully - except for the trash can being recognized as distinctive enough to not be allowed to be copied, leading to Windows’ 90s classic ‘recycle bin’.
adzm 4y ago
You can invert the cursor color on windows fwiw
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  You can change the colors (the default is black with a white outline, not just black) on Mac, too.
  - kryptiskt 4y ago
    I used to find it irritating that I had to jiggle the mouse to find the cursor, because it doesn't really stick out on screen when it is white or black and I have a lot of screen area. Then I tried turning the cursor yellow with a black border. It is great, it's obvious where it is with a glance now.

grrdotcloud 4y ago

I didn't click but thought "why would you want to log your mouse movements? Analyze them to what end? I suppose you could automate or infer something from the trails? Number of clicks? Keyboard to mouse frequency, time spent. Then started working though the logging, insights while reading the comments. Pressure sensitive mouse buttons may be helpful. Same with haptic feedback when dragging over heavier buttons.

Krutonium 4y ago
I still own a Logitech iFeel mouse from the late 90's early 2000's. It's a heavier mouse that offers force feedback on the desktop, specifically as you move over icons and such. It also gave force feedback in games, such as Half Life. Unfortunately on Windows the drivers havn't worked since probably XP, but on Linux I did figure out how to drive the motor, and wrote a PoC to get it working again. It'd need support from the DE and games to really be useful, though.

StuckDuck 4y ago

Woah, I have been watching all of this guy's videos recently, I love how deep he dives into niche topics. His video on segmented displays got me very interested in the clever designs that came out of technical constraints, and challenged me to get back to design a little bit. It's nice to see him linked here

fwlr 4y ago

If I used Windows I would definitely use that cursor pack! Only partially related but Posy is a great creator, his DSM LCD video is one of my all-time favorite videos. https://youtu.be/eGQQWIbD-nM https://youtu.be/eGQQWIbD-nM

jonny_eh 4y ago

Video is from 2018, title should be updated.

webwielder2 4y ago

Possible subtitle: Or How Apple Got It Right Once Again

dabluecaboose 4y ago

Very interesting video! I have to say I have not really considered changing my cursor much since the heyday of ~2006 Myspace cursor type things. I've sent this tab to my home desktop to give it a try when I get home. I often find myself gravitating towards sleeker, flashier looking cursors (like a chevron) but sooner or later get annoyed or confused and switch back to the old angled-triangle-wtih-tail. I'm interested if anyone else has thought more about mouse cursors in recent years and what your findings were!

Kwpolska 4y ago

I tried his cursors for a moment and they looked strange to me. I went back to my cursors of choice, which are the auto-generated black cursors from Windows 10/11. (Accessibility → Mouse pointer and touch → lime cursor → Choose another color → black. It looks good at 1x and 2x.