5 ms·

Hmm, I'm not convinced. I think it's a bit of wishful thinking to connect Motown just because of the geography. I'm not seeing much specific connection between

by atchoo 3y ago

Hmm, I'm not convinced. I think it's a bit of wishful thinking to connect Motown just because of the geography. I'm not seeing much specific connection between the artists, performers, labels etc. I don't think you listen to Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, The Supremes etc. and say to yourself "This is the direct parent of Techno!". The label itself had moved to LA in the 60s. I think the Motown style had passed on by then to Disco which had also passed into High NRG / Italdisco when House/Techno started rising. The early House singers were coming from Church/Gospel like they did for Motown so in some ways they are also siblings with a shared parent. That isn't to say that those Motown artists weren't influential at all, quite the opposite. I love how the great musicians in multiple genres, Rock/Pop/EDM, are in total awe of them. They have global influence. I just haven't seen a unique connection for Detroit/Chicago because of the geography.

jjulius 3y ago
This kind of highlights what I mentioned about how the history of the transformation of this music is hard to pin down and strongly subjected to personal opinion. :) >I don't think you listen to Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, The Supremes etc. and say to yourself "This is the direct parent of Techno!". Yes and no, IMO. I certainly wouldn't say that you can hear much that would prompt you to call it "the direct parent of Techno". But there's plenty of it that you can hear within House and Disco, also IMO. There's a direct line of influence, as you say, that I can hear; Motown -> Disco -> House -> Techno. >I just haven't seen a unique connection for Detroit/Chicago because of the geography. I struggle to see how anyone can't see it. It's not like everyone involved with Motown uprooted themselves and moved to Los Angeles in the 60's. Many people stayed in Detroit and continued to make that kind of music in Detroit. It's in the city's blood, in their musical DNA. It's close to their heart and they absolutely take a strong influence from it. Not just in dance music, Detroit's own J Dilla was heavily influenced by it and he didn't start producing anything until the early 90's (someone correct me if I'm wrong on the timing there), after Techno had been around for a bit and well after Motown had left the city. Hell, the Belleville Three were born and raised in Detroit in the early 60's; it would've been impossible to have lived there and not been surrounded by Motown. Plenty of other artists who were doing things in the 80's also would've grown up around a lot of the Motown sound, and have always been vocal about it's influence in what they do. Motown didn't bail on Detroit until 1972[1], giving the aforementioned trio at least a decade of living right next door to the label. But the geography point I was specifically making, and maybe I wasn't clear about, was more tied to Motown's influence in House music. There's a much more "obvious" connection between the two when you listen to the two genres than there is between Motown and Techno, as you've said. But I truly don't think that there'd be (Detroit) Techno without House (and House as we know it without Motown). The two cities are geographically close to one another (a mere ~4-hour drive) and intrinsically linked. Plenty of the originators of each sound would go back and forth between the two cities to immerse themselves in the scenes and the sounds. You can dive back into interviews with these artists and find them sharing stories of what it was like traveling from one city to the next and immersing themselves in the sound. There was plenty in the way of House that influenced and led to Detroit Techno. That's why I tried to pick an example of a House artist, Chez, moving from Chicago and ending up being heavily involved with pushing Detroit Techno forward; co-founding The Music Institute and giving the sound a home, and helped run Kevin Saunderson's KMS label. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motown
- projectazorian 3y ago
  Can’t find the quote at the moment, but I believe one of the Belleville Three - either Atkins or May - claimed that techno was a rejection of Motown. So it was clearly on their minds, at least, even if they would have denied its influence at the time.
  - jjulius 3y ago
    I might know of what you're referring to, but I had thought it was more along the lines of rejecting Motown's formula for hits. I could totally be wrong though.
rumori 3y ago
One connection might be session musicians from Motown playing on house tracks. I believe Mad Mike Banks was a keyboard player and the whole Underground Resistance ethos came from his disillusionment with the music industry.

by atchoo 3y ago

jjulius 3y ago

This kind of highlights what I mentioned about how the history of the transformation of this music is hard to pin down and strongly subjected to personal opinion. :) >I don't think you listen to Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, The Supremes etc. and say to yourself "This is the direct parent of Techno!". Yes and no, IMO. I certainly wouldn't say that you can hear much that would prompt you to call it "the direct parent of Techno". But there's plenty of it that you can hear within House and Disco, also IMO. There's a direct line of influence, as you say, that I can hear; Motown -> Disco -> House -> Techno. >I just haven't seen a unique connection for Detroit/Chicago because of the geography. I struggle to see how anyone can't see it. It's not like everyone involved with Motown uprooted themselves and moved to Los Angeles in the 60's. Many people stayed in Detroit and continued to make that kind of music in Detroit. It's in the city's blood, in their musical DNA. It's close to their heart and they absolutely take a strong influence from it. Not just in dance music, Detroit's own J Dilla was heavily influenced by it and he didn't start producing anything until the early 90's (someone correct me if I'm wrong on the timing there), after Techno had been around for a bit and well after Motown had left the city. Hell, the Belleville Three were born and raised in Detroit in the early 60's; it would've been impossible to have lived there and not been surrounded by Motown. Plenty of other artists who were doing things in the 80's also would've grown up around a lot of the Motown sound, and have always been vocal about it's influence in what they do. Motown didn't bail on Detroit until 1972[1], giving the aforementioned trio at least a decade of living right next door to the label. But the geography point I was specifically making, and maybe I wasn't clear about, was more tied to Motown's influence in House music. There's a much more "obvious" connection between the two when you listen to the two genres than there is between Motown and Techno, as you've said. But I truly don't think that there'd be (Detroit) Techno without House (and House as we know it without Motown). The two cities are geographically close to one another (a mere ~4-hour drive) and intrinsically linked. Plenty of the originators of each sound would go back and forth between the two cities to immerse themselves in the scenes and the sounds. You can dive back into interviews with these artists and find them sharing stories of what it was like traveling from one city to the next and immersing themselves in the sound. There was plenty in the way of House that influenced and led to Detroit Techno. That's why I tried to pick an example of a House artist, Chez, moving from Chicago and ending up being heavily involved with pushing Detroit Techno forward; co-founding The Music Institute and giving the sound a home, and helped run Kevin Saunderson's KMS label. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motown

projectazorian 3y ago
Can’t find the quote at the moment, but I believe one of the Belleville Three - either Atkins or May - claimed that techno was a rejection of Motown. So it was clearly on their minds, at least, even if they would have denied its influence at the time.
- jjulius 3y ago
  I might know of what you're referring to, but I had thought it was more along the lines of rejecting Motown's formula for hits. I could totally be wrong though.

rumori 3y ago

One connection might be session musicians from Motown playing on house tracks. I believe Mad Mike Banks was a keyboard player and the whole Underground Resistance ethos came from his disillusionment with the music industry.