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It's important to understand the context behind this, Rishi Sunak went to one of the top private schools in the country, he went on to study PPE, went to Goldma

It's important to understand the context behind this, Rishi Sunak went to one of the top private schools in the country, he went on to study PPE, went to Goldman and then was parachuted in to a safe tory seat, he then took on various positions at the treasury before becoming Chancellor and then PM. All this is to say- Rishi Sunak has literally never in his life had any contact at all with state maths education in this country. This is just one of those weird idiosyncrasies of a guy who has a really strong opinion that maths is important having done absolutely nothing to study the issue. So what we end up with is a policy where Rishi Sunak plans to make maths education better... whilst massively cutting school budgets. Teachers unions are all voting to strike because he tried to negotiate a pay deal with them that involved them getting a pay rise that had to be funded out of existing school budgets (ie, you can have a pay rise, but it's going to mean you have to turn the central heating off in your schools and stop mending the holes in the roofs). It's just a completely out of touch approach. This new initiative won't touch the sides against the damage childrens eduction will take due to the failure to pay teachers properly.

blitzar 4y ago
> has literally never in his life had any contact at all with state maths education in this country The state of state maths education in this country is even worse than he thinks. Having a conversation with any of the 93.6% of the population educated in the state school system qualifies as contact with state maths education
- suyash 4y ago
  He doesn't need to, he has 'Secretary of State for Education' in the UK working for him who is responsible for understanding the problem and brining it to the PM.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
suyash 4y ago
Well, it's more important to see that actions Rishi Sunak is taking than what his background is. This is an important problem (STEM - Mathematics Education) that he is tackling which no one else before him bothered to. Regarding his background, it's like saying the CEO of the company has no clue about the software that we build because he never fixes the bugs. The job of a Prime Minister of a CEO is not to be in the nitty gritty of the issues, that's the job of the people who work under him just like IC's and Eng Leaders, then they are supposed to bubble up the important issues and explain to him. Having said that, he is best suited as he brings strategic thinking (learned at Goldman, Stanford) to solve these dire problems.
- oldfashioned1 4y ago
  Maybe in Goldman that's where he learned to betray repeatedly his colleagues As to what knowledge he brings to the table, the answer is nothing. He's just buddies with the IB establishment. That's why I would vote Starmer despite being right of center, him being positioned ahead of voter desires was unacceptable.
- 2b3a51 4y ago
  "This is an important problem (STEM - Mathematics Education) that he is tackling which no one else before him bothered to." The first part of your sentence above is fine. The second part is not consistent with the record. There have been quite a number of initiatives and programmes to try and improve mathematics in Schools and Colleges over the past 40 years or so in England and Wales. I think I might need to go digging and put a list up somewhere.
- SilverBirch 4y ago
  If you want good maths education the first step might be to make sure the maths teachers aren't going out on strike, and the second step might be to make sure you're recruiting enough maths teachers - he's acheived neither. It's not a criticism to say that his background isn't in education, it's an explanation of why he's come up with some weird priority out of the blue and created a solution that no one thinks will work. This isn't about the Prime Minister being the CEO and therefore not needing to worry about the details. A strategic thinker might address the actual issues facing the country rather than blathering about how actors should be forced to learn maths. Should we have interupted Sunak's education to teach him about acting? I think it might have been a good idea, he might have learned to empathize with others a bit rather than coming up with dumb ideas about how every child in Britain needs to be a little Rishi Sunak.
mft_ 4y ago
I'm no more of a fan of Sunak than (it appears that) you are, but you seem to be espousing a model of leadership that says "people can only opine on things that they have direct personal experience of". That's clearly nonsense. In a well-run large organisation (which I definitely not saying the UK Government is!) leaders can legitimiately be provided with information that then informs their opinions; they can delegate topics to trusted subordinates to define policy; they can choose to 'sponsor' a topic to give it extra importance, without having done a personal deep-dive into the subject. This is just the reality of leading a large organsation.
- SilverBirch 4y ago
  There are absolutely examples of senior politicians taking pet issues on. For example Theresa May was genuinely dedicated to tackling modern slavery. The problem for Sunak is that if you look at his record he's got no junior ministerial experience, no experience on a select committee that's relevant, no record on an all party parliamentary group, not legislative record. He simply has never seriously engaged on this issue, and it's not a serious idea - think about someone with low acheivement in maths GCSE - that student is going to be an immense drain on sources to productively teach maths.
  - mft_ 4y ago
    > There are absolutely examples of senior politicians taking pet issues on. For example Theresa May was genuinely dedicated to tackling modern slavery. Sure; but I didn't say anything to the contrary. I was arguing the opposite: that a leader doesn't need to have direct experience of an issue, to 'sponsor' a related initiative. > The problem for Sunak is that if you look at his record he's got no junior ministerial experience, no experience on a select committee that's relevant, no record on an all party parliamentary group, not legislative record. He simply has never seriously engaged on this issue, and it's not a serious idea - think about someone with low acheivement in maths GCSE - that student is going to be an immense drain on sources to productively teach maths. These are all great points, but these aren't the points you were making in your initial post - where you were arguing that he shouldn't be pushing an initiative related to maths education because "Rishi Sunak has literally never in his life had any contact at all with state maths education in this country".

blitzar 4y ago

> has literally never in his life had any contact at all with state maths education in this country The state of state maths education in this country is even worse than he thinks. Having a conversation with any of the 93.6% of the population educated in the state school system qualifies as contact with state maths education

suyash 4y ago
He doesn't need to, he has 'Secretary of State for Education' in the UK working for him who is responsible for understanding the problem and brining it to the PM.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

suyash 4y ago

Well, it's more important to see that actions Rishi Sunak is taking than what his background is. This is an important problem (STEM - Mathematics Education) that he is tackling which no one else before him bothered to. Regarding his background, it's like saying the CEO of the company has no clue about the software that we build because he never fixes the bugs. The job of a Prime Minister of a CEO is not to be in the nitty gritty of the issues, that's the job of the people who work under him just like IC's and Eng Leaders, then they are supposed to bubble up the important issues and explain to him. Having said that, he is best suited as he brings strategic thinking (learned at Goldman, Stanford) to solve these dire problems.

oldfashioned1 4y ago
Maybe in Goldman that's where he learned to betray repeatedly his colleagues As to what knowledge he brings to the table, the answer is nothing. He's just buddies with the IB establishment. That's why I would vote Starmer despite being right of center, him being positioned ahead of voter desires was unacceptable.
2b3a51 4y ago
"This is an important problem (STEM - Mathematics Education) that he is tackling which no one else before him bothered to." The first part of your sentence above is fine. The second part is not consistent with the record. There have been quite a number of initiatives and programmes to try and improve mathematics in Schools and Colleges over the past 40 years or so in England and Wales. I think I might need to go digging and put a list up somewhere.
SilverBirch 4y ago
If you want good maths education the first step might be to make sure the maths teachers aren't going out on strike, and the second step might be to make sure you're recruiting enough maths teachers - he's acheived neither. It's not a criticism to say that his background isn't in education, it's an explanation of why he's come up with some weird priority out of the blue and created a solution that no one thinks will work. This isn't about the Prime Minister being the CEO and therefore not needing to worry about the details. A strategic thinker might address the actual issues facing the country rather than blathering about how actors should be forced to learn maths. Should we have interupted Sunak's education to teach him about acting? I think it might have been a good idea, he might have learned to empathize with others a bit rather than coming up with dumb ideas about how every child in Britain needs to be a little Rishi Sunak.

mft_ 4y ago

I'm no more of a fan of Sunak than (it appears that) you are, but you seem to be espousing a model of leadership that says "people can only opine on things that they have direct personal experience of". That's clearly nonsense. In a well-run large organisation (which I definitely not saying the UK Government is!) leaders can legitimiately be provided with information that then informs their opinions; they can delegate topics to trusted subordinates to define policy; they can choose to 'sponsor' a topic to give it extra importance, without having done a personal deep-dive into the subject. This is just the reality of leading a large organsation.

SilverBirch 4y ago
There are absolutely examples of senior politicians taking pet issues on. For example Theresa May was genuinely dedicated to tackling modern slavery. The problem for Sunak is that if you look at his record he's got no junior ministerial experience, no experience on a select committee that's relevant, no record on an all party parliamentary group, not legislative record. He simply has never seriously engaged on this issue, and it's not a serious idea - think about someone with low acheivement in maths GCSE - that student is going to be an immense drain on sources to productively teach maths.
- mft_ 4y ago
  > There are absolutely examples of senior politicians taking pet issues on. For example Theresa May was genuinely dedicated to tackling modern slavery. Sure; but I didn't say anything to the contrary. I was arguing the opposite: that a leader doesn't need to have direct experience of an issue, to 'sponsor' a related initiative. > The problem for Sunak is that if you look at his record he's got no junior ministerial experience, no experience on a select committee that's relevant, no record on an all party parliamentary group, not legislative record. He simply has never seriously engaged on this issue, and it's not a serious idea - think about someone with low acheivement in maths GCSE - that student is going to be an immense drain on sources to productively teach maths. These are all great points, but these aren't the points you were making in your initial post - where you were arguing that he shouldn't be pushing an initiative related to maths education because "Rishi Sunak has literally never in his life had any contact at all with state maths education in this country".