4 ms·

Sarcasm?

by ertian 3y ago

Sarcasm?

chadcmulligan 3y ago
No, not at all, take 10% of the military budget, up the tax right for the high earners and make a better world. Imagine a place where no one had to be scared of living on the street, could get decent food, has access to free education and health care. What a wonderful world. It's totally within our capabilities and no one need suffer. Now I'm not saying it will be a great life but a basic life, it's been proved over and over that the limiting factor for a number of minorities is poverty, so unless you address that first nothing will be solved. Sure some people will abuse it, but think of the kids that will be able to get an education and eat properly, and its just easy.
- TimTheTinker 3y ago
  > What a wonderful world. It's totally within our capabilities and no one need suffer. I get really scared when I hear anyone promise utopia. Literally every large-scale society that did turned into a hellscape after a while, and the idea itself never worked. There was always someone who didn't buy into the idea, and they were blamed for why it didn't work. "If only those people were gone, then this would work and we'd be happy." So millions die or are sent to the gulag or whatever it's called, and the idea is still not working. China no longer promises its citizens a utopia. All they promise is a country that is powerful on the world stage. They're getting there, but it's still happening via exploitation. And the back alleys of Beijing still ring with abject poverty.
  - chadcmulligan 3y ago
    Interesting, China has managed to lift a large proportion of its citizens in a very short time. I wasn't suggesting a Utopia, merely raising the bar so the minimum level is better than it is now, surely that should be the goal of every advanced country. The current levels of poverty are negatively influencing the next generation.
    - TimTheTinker 3y ago
      > China has managed to lift a large proportion of its citizens in a very short time You're conveniently ignoring the cultural revolution, which caused an ideological purity spiral resulting in millions dead. China only began to prosper when they relaxed their economic policies and began to allow property/business ownership and international trade (especially with the West) back in.
    - ertian 3y ago
      Poverty is not eliminated in China, at all. The fact that they lifted a lot of people out of poverty doesn't necessarily mean they can lift all people out of poverty. Nobody else has achieved that. It's not as easy as you make out. Also: the way they lifted all those people out of poverty was basically by freeing them to lift themselves out of poverty, by adopting an essentially capitalist system. You could say: they simply stopped holding people in poverty.
- dh2022 3y ago
  " Imagine a place where no one had to be scared of living on the street, could get decent food, has access to free education and health care. What a wonderful world. " This wonderful world already exists in the US. Poor people have access to Medicaid / Emergency Rooms. The debate about food insecurity is whether or not poor people can afford fresh vegetables (because living on rice, cheap meats and canned peas/beans is not nutritious enough). About living in the street - if you are living on the street when you can get a job as a limo driver for $30 / hour just by walking in then maybe is your fault???
  - chadcmulligan 3y ago
    > if you are living on the street when you can get a job as a limo driver for $30 / hour just by walking in then maybe is your fault??? Wow, this is a joke isn't it?

Sarcasm?

by ertian 3y ago

Sarcasm?

No, not at all, take 10% of the military budget, up the tax right for the high earners and make a better world. Imagine a place where no one had to be scared of living on the street, could get decent food, has access to free education and health care. What a wonderful world. It's totally within our capabilities and no one need suffer. Now I'm not saying it will be a great life but a basic life, it's been proved over and over that the limiting factor for a number of minorities is poverty, so unless you address that first nothing will be solved. Sure some people will abuse it, but think of the kids that will be able to get an education and eat properly, and its just easy.

TimTheTinker 3y ago
> What a wonderful world. It's totally within our capabilities and no one need suffer. I get really scared when I hear anyone promise utopia. Literally every large-scale society that did turned into a hellscape after a while, and the idea itself never worked. There was always someone who didn't buy into the idea, and they were blamed for why it didn't work. "If only those people were gone, then this would work and we'd be happy." So millions die or are sent to the gulag or whatever it's called, and the idea is still not working. China no longer promises its citizens a utopia. All they promise is a country that is powerful on the world stage. They're getting there, but it's still happening via exploitation. And the back alleys of Beijing still ring with abject poverty.
- chadcmulligan 3y ago
  Interesting, China has managed to lift a large proportion of its citizens in a very short time. I wasn't suggesting a Utopia, merely raising the bar so the minimum level is better than it is now, surely that should be the goal of every advanced country. The current levels of poverty are negatively influencing the next generation.
  - TimTheTinker 3y ago
    > China has managed to lift a large proportion of its citizens in a very short time You're conveniently ignoring the cultural revolution, which caused an ideological purity spiral resulting in millions dead. China only began to prosper when they relaxed their economic policies and began to allow property/business ownership and international trade (especially with the West) back in.
  - ertian 3y ago
    Poverty is not eliminated in China, at all. The fact that they lifted a lot of people out of poverty doesn't necessarily mean they can lift all people out of poverty. Nobody else has achieved that. It's not as easy as you make out. Also: the way they lifted all those people out of poverty was basically by freeing them to lift themselves out of poverty, by adopting an essentially capitalist system. You could say: they simply stopped holding people in poverty.
dh2022 3y ago
" Imagine a place where no one had to be scared of living on the street, could get decent food, has access to free education and health care. What a wonderful world. " This wonderful world already exists in the US. Poor people have access to Medicaid / Emergency Rooms. The debate about food insecurity is whether or not poor people can afford fresh vegetables (because living on rice, cheap meats and canned peas/beans is not nutritious enough). About living in the street - if you are living on the street when you can get a job as a limo driver for $30 / hour just by walking in then maybe is your fault???
- chadcmulligan 3y ago
  > if you are living on the street when you can get a job as a limo driver for $30 / hour just by walking in then maybe is your fault??? Wow, this is a joke isn't it?