10 ms·

Eh, no way to really know the truth. When I had a corporate job, I wrote a proposal and a new manager essentially took credit for it and botched the implementa

Eh, no way to really know the truth. When I had a corporate job, I wrote a proposal and a new manager essentially took credit for it and botched the implementation so badly I didn't want my name associated with it. Life frequently looks like Pinky and the Brain where who really did what is unclear.

devbent 4y ago
1996, I posted on the AOL Star Trek DS9 forum that the Federation should lay mines in the worm hole. 13yr old me was shocked to see the Federation laying mines in the worm hole a year later. :D
- qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
  Omega molecule bomb borg space! Build a firewall around that section of the universe. Let that hegemonizing swarm burn itself out while trapped in jello.
- goodcanadian 4y ago
  One thing I have learned in life is that there is no such thing as an original idea. Ideas have their time. If it is truly a good idea (and even if it is not), someone has already thought of it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't credit people for the idea, but at the same time, just because you thought of it, doesn't mean that is where the final product came from.
  - screye 4y ago
    I've seen this up close during my time in ML research. I'd often jokingly mention an idea, only for someone to get a state-of-the-art paper out of the exact same idea within a year of that. It annoyed me at first, but with time, I realized that this was a rather familiar occurrence. Many top labs are tight-lipped even when talking about peripheral topics, because so many of their peers are within months of reaching the same answer, and even the smallest hint might lead to a peer getting there first. My conversations with top researchers indicate that all research in ML is about 'getting there first' rather than producing something that requires a mythical epiphany. It does take away from the glamor of it a little bit. If Salieri had been months away from composing Mozart's best work himself, that would have taken away from the timelessness of his work.
    - DoreenMichele 4y ago
      My recollection is that at least two other people came up with the idea of evolution around the same time. Charles Darwin got credit for it for whatever reason, but it seems likely the world was at a point where the pieces were there and just needed to be put together and several people did put it together but only one got credit for it.
      - screye 4y ago
        The one that blow my mind the most was the simultaneous invention of calculus. Modern Calculus can be reasonably thought of as the most important mathematical leap forward of the last 1000 years. If there was ever an invention that can be considered a piece of unquestionable genius, then that's calculus. And somehow, it was simultaneously invented by 2 different people within a few years of each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz%E2%80%93Newton_calculus_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz%E2%80%93Newton_calculu...
  - morisy 4y ago
    For a while, when I came up with a really clever, original one-liner, I'd search Twitter history and find that it had already been made dozens of times. Worse, we started a business and scoured around, looking to see if anyone had ever tried it. A little over a year in, we realize someone else had started it, two years before us, but with slightly different terminology. Fortunately, but we're both still around and kicking over a decade later, though with a good understanding now of why not many other folks had tried it.
    - failrate 4y ago
      This happens to me every time I release a new game. Some combination of zeitgeist and Baader-Meinhoff means that I will see basically the same thing released at basically the same time, usually a better implementation.
    - D-Coder 4y ago
      Yep. A friend was discussing how her cat loved to be with her 100% of the time, but when she took a shower, the cat was distressed. In a moment of cleverness, I suggested the obvious solution: a cat raincoat. Then I searched the web and found lots of cat raincoats.
  - jaredhallen 4y ago
    Calculus, Newton, and Leibniz is another example.
  - waterhouse 4y ago
    Feast your brain on this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_discoveries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_discoveries It is really amazing to see how many discoveries and inventions I've heard of were independently made by two or more people within a few years of each other.
- djur 4y ago
  These days, there are showrunners who would have changed the plot because "someone online guessed it".
  - McGlockenshire 4y ago
    > These days The DS9 folks have outright said that they've not done things because people assumed or guessed online. The first one that springs to mind is Eddington. > Although "The Adversary" shows Eddington was misidentified as a Changeling, public opinion nevertheless became wary that he was a member of that species, to the puzzlement of the DS9 staff writers. Stated Ira Behr, "After 'The Adversary', everyone on the Internet was convinced that Eddington was a changeling, even though we went out of our way to show that he wasn't. We all looked at each other and said, 'There's no way this guy is ever gonna be a changeling!'" Behr laughed. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion (p. 253)) https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Michael_Eddington https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Michael_Eddington
    - djur 4y ago
      That's not quite what I'm talking about. They never planned to make Eddington a changeling in the first place. But I retract my comment regardless. "These days" comments are lazy thinking.
BoxFour 4y ago
I dunno, this one seems pretty clear-cut. His story heavily focuses on pitching to a CEO who wasn't running the company when the product was already out on the market.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  It was investigated like twenty years after the original events. Him misremembering some details doesn't prove it's fabricated.
  - BoxFour 4y ago
    Misremembering some really critical parts like "I pitched it to the CEO Roger Enrico and that's how the product got launched" is pretty suspect. Getting the year wrong: Forgivable. Getting some minor details wrong: Understandable. But when literally nothing about your story fact checks and the most critical parts are contradicted by evidence, I think it's time to reconsider whether it really happened at all.
    - DoreenMichele 4y ago
      I don't really care either way. I just know it's shockingly common for "nobodies" to have a good idea, share it in some way and someone else with more status runs with it and gets the credit. And I can well imagine someone feeling like "No one will believe what actually happened" and trying to fudge the details a bit in hopes of being heard. I'm old. I'm cynical. I'm tired. Frankly, I didn't bother to read the full article because I'm so convinced that it's not possible to know what really happened and that if a Hispanic janitor did come up with the idea, the odds are long against him getting a fair shake. So why bother?
      - sarchertech 4y ago
        If anything Frito-Lay, and anyone still working there have absolutely no incentive to do anything except go along with Montañez's story. It's fantastic PR. The only person in this story who have any incentive to lie are the sales guy, and the MBA who are claiming that they pushed for and invented hot cheetos. But their story is backed up by documented evidence that the product existed years before Montañez claims that he invented it, and Frito-Lay confirms their story. What sounds better--"Janitor rises to Executive by inventing flaming hot cheetos", or "MBA creates new brand by copying existing competitors"? When the vast majority of the evidence supports the 2nd version, despite it being a less compelling story, I think it's pretty safe to go with that one.
benzible 4y ago
Actually, this is how you know: > The Times spoke with 20 people who worked at the Frito-Lay divisions responsible for new product development 32 years ago, when Flamin’ Hot Cheetos were first extruded into existence. None recalls anything like the episode Montañez describes taking place.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  Human memory may be unreliable after just a few seconds https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35464229 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35464229 I could have sworn there was a submission with comments. I can't find it. Maybe I'm misremembering that. ¯_ (ツ)_/¯ Edit: There's also a phenomenon known as lying. I've seen underprivileged people hurt by more "reliable, upstanding" sorts taking advantage of the other's lack of credibility. Last, group think is a thing. Everyone agrees X is the truth, they all swear that's the truth.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    > Human memory may be unreliable after just a few seconds Is your argument that Montañez's memory is accurate but that of everyone who was interviewed (20 people?) are not?
    - DoreenMichele 4y ago
      Nope. My position -- stated elsewhere -- is we can't really know for sure and it's not worth my time to try to figure it out. Multiple people have some issue with me feeling that way and feel compelled to tell me I'm wrong, it's knowable, here are the facts -- though they weren't there personally. Why so many people feel compelled to argue this with me is beyond me. But I feel entitled to not care and not agree with people insisting they know for absolute certain what happened decades ago to someone else based on reading stuff and they are right for caring and feeling absolutely certain and I'm wrong for not.
      - benzible 4y ago
aidenn0 4y ago
From TFA, there is an article from 1993 that indicates Montañez invented Flamin' Hot Popcorn, which fits the timeline(s) of those involved more closely. Given that that article is from just a single year after the date in which Montañez claims the story to have occurred, and the timeline for Flamin' Hot Cheetos isn't even close to matching up, it seems like confusing Cheetos with popcorn is the most likely mistake in the popular story.

devbent 4y ago

1996, I posted on the AOL Star Trek DS9 forum that the Federation should lay mines in the worm hole. 13yr old me was shocked to see the Federation laying mines in the worm hole a year later. :D

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
Omega molecule bomb borg space! Build a firewall around that section of the universe. Let that hegemonizing swarm burn itself out while trapped in jello.
goodcanadian 4y ago
One thing I have learned in life is that there is no such thing as an original idea. Ideas have their time. If it is truly a good idea (and even if it is not), someone has already thought of it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't credit people for the idea, but at the same time, just because you thought of it, doesn't mean that is where the final product came from.
- screye 4y ago
  I've seen this up close during my time in ML research. I'd often jokingly mention an idea, only for someone to get a state-of-the-art paper out of the exact same idea within a year of that. It annoyed me at first, but with time, I realized that this was a rather familiar occurrence. Many top labs are tight-lipped even when talking about peripheral topics, because so many of their peers are within months of reaching the same answer, and even the smallest hint might lead to a peer getting there first. My conversations with top researchers indicate that all research in ML is about 'getting there first' rather than producing something that requires a mythical epiphany. It does take away from the glamor of it a little bit. If Salieri had been months away from composing Mozart's best work himself, that would have taken away from the timelessness of his work.
  - DoreenMichele 4y ago
    My recollection is that at least two other people came up with the idea of evolution around the same time. Charles Darwin got credit for it for whatever reason, but it seems likely the world was at a point where the pieces were there and just needed to be put together and several people did put it together but only one got credit for it.
    - screye 4y ago
      The one that blow my mind the most was the simultaneous invention of calculus. Modern Calculus can be reasonably thought of as the most important mathematical leap forward of the last 1000 years. If there was ever an invention that can be considered a piece of unquestionable genius, then that's calculus. And somehow, it was simultaneously invented by 2 different people within a few years of each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz%E2%80%93Newton_calculus_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz%E2%80%93Newton_calculu...
- morisy 4y ago
  For a while, when I came up with a really clever, original one-liner, I'd search Twitter history and find that it had already been made dozens of times. Worse, we started a business and scoured around, looking to see if anyone had ever tried it. A little over a year in, we realize someone else had started it, two years before us, but with slightly different terminology. Fortunately, but we're both still around and kicking over a decade later, though with a good understanding now of why not many other folks had tried it.
  - failrate 4y ago
    This happens to me every time I release a new game. Some combination of zeitgeist and Baader-Meinhoff means that I will see basically the same thing released at basically the same time, usually a better implementation.
  - D-Coder 4y ago
    Yep. A friend was discussing how her cat loved to be with her 100% of the time, but when she took a shower, the cat was distressed. In a moment of cleverness, I suggested the obvious solution: a cat raincoat. Then I searched the web and found lots of cat raincoats.
- jaredhallen 4y ago
  Calculus, Newton, and Leibniz is another example.
- waterhouse 4y ago
  Feast your brain on this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_discoveries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_discoveries It is really amazing to see how many discoveries and inventions I've heard of were independently made by two or more people within a few years of each other.
djur 4y ago
These days, there are showrunners who would have changed the plot because "someone online guessed it".
- McGlockenshire 4y ago
  > These days The DS9 folks have outright said that they've not done things because people assumed or guessed online. The first one that springs to mind is Eddington. > Although "The Adversary" shows Eddington was misidentified as a Changeling, public opinion nevertheless became wary that he was a member of that species, to the puzzlement of the DS9 staff writers. Stated Ira Behr, "After 'The Adversary', everyone on the Internet was convinced that Eddington was a changeling, even though we went out of our way to show that he wasn't. We all looked at each other and said, 'There's no way this guy is ever gonna be a changeling!'" Behr laughed. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion (p. 253)) https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Michael_Eddington https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Michael_Eddington
  - djur 4y ago
    That's not quite what I'm talking about. They never planned to make Eddington a changeling in the first place. But I retract my comment regardless. "These days" comments are lazy thinking.

BoxFour 4y ago

I dunno, this one seems pretty clear-cut. His story heavily focuses on pitching to a CEO who wasn't running the company when the product was already out on the market.

DoreenMichele 4y ago
It was investigated like twenty years after the original events. Him misremembering some details doesn't prove it's fabricated.
- BoxFour 4y ago
  Misremembering some really critical parts like "I pitched it to the CEO Roger Enrico and that's how the product got launched" is pretty suspect. Getting the year wrong: Forgivable. Getting some minor details wrong: Understandable. But when literally nothing about your story fact checks and the most critical parts are contradicted by evidence, I think it's time to reconsider whether it really happened at all.
  - DoreenMichele 4y ago
    I don't really care either way. I just know it's shockingly common for "nobodies" to have a good idea, share it in some way and someone else with more status runs with it and gets the credit. And I can well imagine someone feeling like "No one will believe what actually happened" and trying to fudge the details a bit in hopes of being heard. I'm old. I'm cynical. I'm tired. Frankly, I didn't bother to read the full article because I'm so convinced that it's not possible to know what really happened and that if a Hispanic janitor did come up with the idea, the odds are long against him getting a fair shake. So why bother?
    - sarchertech 4y ago
      If anything Frito-Lay, and anyone still working there have absolutely no incentive to do anything except go along with Montañez's story. It's fantastic PR. The only person in this story who have any incentive to lie are the sales guy, and the MBA who are claiming that they pushed for and invented hot cheetos. But their story is backed up by documented evidence that the product existed years before Montañez claims that he invented it, and Frito-Lay confirms their story. What sounds better--"Janitor rises to Executive by inventing flaming hot cheetos", or "MBA creates new brand by copying existing competitors"? When the vast majority of the evidence supports the 2nd version, despite it being a less compelling story, I think it's pretty safe to go with that one.

benzible 4y ago

Actually, this is how you know: > The Times spoke with 20 people who worked at the Frito-Lay divisions responsible for new product development 32 years ago, when Flamin’ Hot Cheetos were first extruded into existence. None recalls anything like the episode Montañez describes taking place.

DoreenMichele 4y ago
Human memory may be unreliable after just a few seconds https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35464229 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35464229 I could have sworn there was a submission with comments. I can't find it. Maybe I'm misremembering that. ¯_ (ツ)_/¯ Edit: There's also a phenomenon known as lying. I've seen underprivileged people hurt by more "reliable, upstanding" sorts taking advantage of the other's lack of credibility. Last, group think is a thing. Everyone agrees X is the truth, they all swear that's the truth.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  > Human memory may be unreliable after just a few seconds Is your argument that Montañez's memory is accurate but that of everyone who was interviewed (20 people?) are not?
  - DoreenMichele 4y ago
    Nope. My position -- stated elsewhere -- is we can't really know for sure and it's not worth my time to try to figure it out. Multiple people have some issue with me feeling that way and feel compelled to tell me I'm wrong, it's knowable, here are the facts -- though they weren't there personally. Why so many people feel compelled to argue this with me is beyond me. But I feel entitled to not care and not agree with people insisting they know for absolute certain what happened decades ago to someone else based on reading stuff and they are right for caring and feeling absolutely certain and I'm wrong for not.
    - benzible 4y ago

aidenn0 4y ago

From TFA, there is an article from 1993 that indicates Montañez invented Flamin' Hot Popcorn, which fits the timeline(s) of those involved more closely. Given that that article is from just a single year after the date in which Montañez claims the story to have occurred, and the timeline for Flamin' Hot Cheetos isn't even close to matching up, it seems like confusing Cheetos with popcorn is the most likely mistake in the popular story.