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You still get better and prompter health care when you pay more money in pretty much every country.

tambourine_man 4y ago
Like most things, it depends. There’s no money you can pay to get a donated organ faster in most decent countries. There are treatments too expensive for even the best health plans and are only available through government sponsored systems. You couldn’t buy yourself a vaccine ahead of anyone else for any price during the covid peak, etc. Health is as much a collective issue as it is an individual one.
- coryrc 4y ago
  Those things are all available to the ultra-wealthy. For your last example: https://www.statnews.com/2020/12/03/how-rich-and-privileged-can-skip-the-line-for-covid19-vaccines/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/12/03/how-rich-and-privileged-...
  - tambourine_man 4y ago
    That's why I prefaced the statements with “most decent countries”, etc. The U.S. health care system doesn't qualify as decent for the richest country on earth in the XXI century, unfortunatly.
    - CydeWeys 4y ago
      No True Scotsman arguments aren't particularly interesting.
      - tambourine_man 4y ago
        Canada, England, Brazil are far poorer and have way better health systems. I don’t understand how that’s a No True Scotsman fallacy.
        matheusmoreira 4y ago
        Brazilian health care system? Better than the USA? You gotta be kidding me.
        CydeWeys 4y ago
        The US has the best healthcare in the world, period. It's just not cheap. Brazil isn't even remotely comparable.
        matheusmoreira 4y ago
        Brazilian healthcare isn't cheap either. It's just incredibly corrupt and eternally dependent on political will for funding. In the middle of the pandemic politicians got caught overpricing items like respirators and pocketing the difference. In the middle of the pandemic with everyone's eyes on them. Imagine the corruption that goes on in a normal day.
        fnordpiglet 4y ago
        The best healthcare is available in the US, but it is not the best health care system. The system is awful in almost every possible dimension. And tying it to employment is one of the worst features.
        tambourine_man 4y ago
        The best healthcare system is the one available to most people, period. And you’re right, Brazil’s is not even remotely comparable to the US. It’s universal, completely unrestricted and covers continental distances for over 200 million people. It’s not only free, but a fundamental right guaranteed by the country’s constitution. If one has a serious disease like cancer and is not a millionaire, guess where there’s a greater chance of survival. Also, when large scale sanitary solutions must be applied, like, you know, during a pandemic, wouldn’t it nice to have a way to reach millions of people other than improvising mass vaccination campaigns in stadiums and fairgrounds?
        matheusmoreira 4y ago
fnordpiglet 4y ago
In the US care, particularly specialist care, is both expensive and de facto rationed by lack of supply. Need a psychiatrist? No insurance accepted and a 3-6 month wait.
- dev_tty01 4y ago
  Hmm, not true in my experience. Family members have insurance paid psychiatric care and got their first appointments within a couple of weeks. I get that this is variable in different areas and insurance plans, but you stated no insurance and 3-6 months wait as general facts. That is incorrect.
  - fnordpiglet 4y ago
    Definitely variable - I am in Seattle and this is the state of affairs. When I was in NYC the same or worse. In WA state there are effectively zero in patient beds to the extent people in crisis are warehoused in ERs or jail. Where are you? Not specifically about wait time, curious where you rank. My experience in WA and NY ranks 11 and 15 in the US, so most Americans fare worse: https://mhanational.org/issues/2022/mental-health-america-access-care-data https://mhanational.org/issues/2022/mental-health-america-ac...

Like most things, it depends. There’s no money you can pay to get a donated organ faster in most decent countries. There are treatments too expensive for even the best health plans and are only available through government sponsored systems. You couldn’t buy yourself a vaccine ahead of anyone else for any price during the covid peak, etc. Health is as much a collective issue as it is an individual one.

coryrc 4y ago
Those things are all available to the ultra-wealthy. For your last example: https://www.statnews.com/2020/12/03/how-rich-and-privileged-can-skip-the-line-for-covid19-vaccines/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/12/03/how-rich-and-privileged-...
- tambourine_man 4y ago
  That's why I prefaced the statements with “most decent countries”, etc. The U.S. health care system doesn't qualify as decent for the richest country on earth in the XXI century, unfortunatly.
  - CydeWeys 4y ago
    No True Scotsman arguments aren't particularly interesting.
    - tambourine_man 4y ago
      Canada, England, Brazil are far poorer and have way better health systems. I don’t understand how that’s a No True Scotsman fallacy.
      - matheusmoreira 4y ago
        Brazilian health care system? Better than the USA? You gotta be kidding me.
      - CydeWeys 4y ago
        The US has the best healthcare in the world, period. It's just not cheap. Brazil isn't even remotely comparable.
        matheusmoreira 4y ago
        Brazilian healthcare isn't cheap either. It's just incredibly corrupt and eternally dependent on political will for funding. In the middle of the pandemic politicians got caught overpricing items like respirators and pocketing the difference. In the middle of the pandemic with everyone's eyes on them. Imagine the corruption that goes on in a normal day.
        fnordpiglet 4y ago
        The best healthcare is available in the US, but it is not the best health care system. The system is awful in almost every possible dimension. And tying it to employment is one of the worst features.
        tambourine_man 4y ago
        The best healthcare system is the one available to most people, period. And you’re right, Brazil’s is not even remotely comparable to the US. It’s universal, completely unrestricted and covers continental distances for over 200 million people. It’s not only free, but a fundamental right guaranteed by the country’s constitution. If one has a serious disease like cancer and is not a millionaire, guess where there’s a greater chance of survival. Also, when large scale sanitary solutions must be applied, like, you know, during a pandemic, wouldn’t it nice to have a way to reach millions of people other than improvising mass vaccination campaigns in stadiums and fairgrounds?
        matheusmoreira 4y ago

fnordpiglet 4y ago

In the US care, particularly specialist care, is both expensive and de facto rationed by lack of supply. Need a psychiatrist? No insurance accepted and a 3-6 month wait.

dev_tty01 4y ago
Hmm, not true in my experience. Family members have insurance paid psychiatric care and got their first appointments within a couple of weeks. I get that this is variable in different areas and insurance plans, but you stated no insurance and 3-6 months wait as general facts. That is incorrect.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Definitely variable - I am in Seattle and this is the state of affairs. When I was in NYC the same or worse. In WA state there are effectively zero in patient beds to the extent people in crisis are warehoused in ERs or jail. Where are you? Not specifically about wait time, curious where you rank. My experience in WA and NY ranks 11 and 15 in the US, so most Americans fare worse: https://mhanational.org/issues/2022/mental-health-america-access-care-data https://mhanational.org/issues/2022/mental-health-america-ac...