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It's a super complicated history. Kraftwerk started being called "Techno-pop" around 1978 by a Japanese critic, and the term caught on in Europe. "Techno" alon

by whstl 4y ago

It's a super complicated history. Kraftwerk started being called "Techno-pop" around 1978 by a Japanese critic, and the term caught on in Europe. "Techno" alone was a term being thrown around in 1982, perhaps earlier, by German press (and even Billboard seems to have used it) to talk about electronic music in general, from Kraftwerk to New Order to Front-242. However: those European acts that were called "Techno" in the early 80s are now retroactively called "Electro" or "Synth Pop". Interestingly, the early-80s Bellevue Three music, by the way, is much closer to the "Electro" camp, as the popular tunes often lacks the four-to-the-floor associated with today's techno (which the article itself talks about), and feature a breakbeat instead (check out Afrikaa Bambaata for comparison). The four-on-the-floor itself was already a feature on electronic club music like Trans Europe Express by Kraftwerk and I Feel Love by Donna Summer, both 1977. Italo Disco (early 80s) also mainly featured that drum beat. The term "Detroit Techno" and the style itself, featuring the four-on-the-floor, only appeared in the late 1980s. Some people say 1987/1988. And to make matters more complicated: by the time Detroit Techno was flourishing, there was already some music from the Frankfurt Tape Scene that was starting to sound like modern Techno (EDIT: some examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT_K28uMxNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT_K28uMxNY). It wasn't something that happened overnight, in Europe it mostly evolved from Acid House (which also used the four-to-the-floor as a rule), while in Detroit it evolved from Electro. To me, the confusion happens because of some disagreements about terminology. First, groups that Europeans called "Techno" are now being called "Synth Pop" or "Electro" because they sound different from modern dancefloor Techno, or because they made more diverse music (Bigod 20 and Nitzer Ebb are called EBM). Second, the misconception that early-80s Detroit music was "the real Techno", when in reality it wasn't exactly modern techno, it was closer to Kraftwerk and Afrika Bambaata. In reality there was a lot of music being called Techno and a very rich heritage, but some people want to say theirs was "the real first", while in reality it's not that simple.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
> The four-on-the-floor itself was already a feature on electronic club music like Trans Europe Express by Kraftwerk TEE by Kraftwerk is not four-on-the-floor. See "Analyzing Kraftwerk's Beats" for a full explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qhcp6iVWbw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qhcp6iVWbw
- whstl 4y ago
  Sorry, I meant the album. Europe Endless, the opening tune, features a prominent four to the floor.
ehnto 4y ago
> However: those European acts that were called "Techno" in the early 80s are now retroactively called "Electro" or "Synth Pop". This has been my core insight, any one person you are talking to may well be correct given their location and time that they learned about these things. To 2023 me, "Electro" doesn't have enough information to know for sure what music you mean, but in early 2000's in the Australian club scene, Electro was a specific sub-genere of modern club house. We would probably call it electro-house now that it's not the current zeitgeist. The fact that I know for sure people will disagree with that is how I know the former insight is right, it's very dependent on time and place, and there is no authority.
- strohwueste 4y ago
  I totally agree with you, but would also add that electro and techno kind of have the same meaning to me now. If someone ask about it I would reply back what their favourite guitar music is, because it's not a genre anymore but style how to make music. Namely electronic or technology focused
- whstl 4y ago
  There was also an Electro revival in the 2000s that sounds nothing like the original, people called it electroclash but now I see a lot of people calling it just electro. In the end, the differences are minimal, and the more trivial they are, the more people squabble about it. Add or remove a keyboard pad and you have a new genre which people will hate.
kristopolous 4y ago
It's mostly a categorical problem - techno is a hard term to pin down. I've been thinking for the past few years that late 60s/early 70s prog-rock played a much more substantial role in it then I had initially assumed for the 20 years prior. Take say Tocatta from ELP's BSS album: https://youtu.be/Qk8jAuVzga8?t=494 https://youtu.be/Qk8jAuVzga8?t=494 ... that's 1973 - a careful ear will recognize many later standard patterns packed in that small clip. There's tons of these little 20-second or so clips that are 20 years ahead of their time in the prog-rock from the era. Along with that are space age and lounge jazz. Take Hugo Montenegro – Moog Power from 1969 for instance or the Mort Garson album under the name Atraxia from 1975. I used to think these weren't part of the story but I've been coming around on it and think of it as "technos" Xerox PARC era, the first attempt at the future world that electro and 80s disco took the lead on. We separate rock from techno categorically but I think it's a limitation and mistake if we're trying to figure out the influences and history. That's a modern distinction. E2-E4 came out of that, to put things back in to West Germany - an album heavily cited as influence regardless which originating American school you want to focus on (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0HyevZpQg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0HyevZpQg). Of course put that guy back in 1975 and you get more Xerox PARC style prog rock inventions, this time for electric guitar https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=khejrbgdc4w https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=khejrbgdc4w * Let's call these things Techno v.0.1-0.8 or so. This stuff is complicated. It's like how Wes Craven said the opening chords of the Gary Wright's pop song "Dream Weaver" was his inspiration for Freddy Krueger. (those first 30 seconds ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZKuzwPOefs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZKuzwPOefs) Things are weird. * if you like that style check out Michael C Sharp such as https://michaelcsharp.bandcamp.com/album/trip-further https://michaelcsharp.bandcamp.com/album/trip-further which will combine some mid-era, (also called Berlin school) analog synths as well
- whstl 4y ago
  > Let's call these things Techno v.0.1-0.8 or so. Yep, that’s definitely what it is. Still not stylistically homogenous as late techno, but lots of ideas and the foundation was already there.
noizejoy 4y ago
In my version of the history of Techno, "Yello"[0] also deserves very honorable mention. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yello https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yello
atchoo 4y ago
> there was already some music from the Frankfurt Tape Scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT_K28uMxNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT_K28uMxNY What tunes are you wanting to highlight? Skimming that video and I recognise Frankie Knuckles, Farley "Jackmaster" Funk, Mike "Hitman" Wilson (all Chicago House) and The KLF (British erm... Rave?).
projectazorian 4y ago
This post omits the substantial Japanese contributions to techno and I am not sure why. Technopop was not just some journalist’s genre descriptor for Kraftwerk. It was a rich genre originated in Japan by Yellow Magic Orchestra, who combined Kraftwerk’s sound with a more pop sensibility. Many of the Detroit techno originators have cited YMO alongside Kraftwerk as a key influence. Two key contributions from YMO come to mind, but there are many others: YMO’s “Technopolis,” recorded in 1979, might have been the first dance music track to use the word “techno”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek1oCwp7oms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek1oCwp7oms Their 1981 version of Ryuichi Sakamoto’s “Thousand Knives” is often cited as the first track to use the Roland TR-808: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2d37oySCfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2d37oySCfk ps: Technopop would later evolve into what we know as city pop, and eventually present-day J-pop. The sound quickly diverged from what we would recognize as techno; the early releases in the genre are the most important for this discussion, especially YMOs since those were by far the most accessible in the US. It’s all interesting to listen to though!

by whstl 4y ago

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

> The four-on-the-floor itself was already a feature on electronic club music like Trans Europe Express by Kraftwerk TEE by Kraftwerk is not four-on-the-floor. See "Analyzing Kraftwerk's Beats" for a full explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qhcp6iVWbw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qhcp6iVWbw

whstl 4y ago
Sorry, I meant the album. Europe Endless, the opening tune, features a prominent four to the floor.

ehnto 4y ago

> However: those European acts that were called "Techno" in the early 80s are now retroactively called "Electro" or "Synth Pop". This has been my core insight, any one person you are talking to may well be correct given their location and time that they learned about these things. To 2023 me, "Electro" doesn't have enough information to know for sure what music you mean, but in early 2000's in the Australian club scene, Electro was a specific sub-genere of modern club house. We would probably call it electro-house now that it's not the current zeitgeist. The fact that I know for sure people will disagree with that is how I know the former insight is right, it's very dependent on time and place, and there is no authority.

strohwueste 4y ago
I totally agree with you, but would also add that electro and techno kind of have the same meaning to me now. If someone ask about it I would reply back what their favourite guitar music is, because it's not a genre anymore but style how to make music. Namely electronic or technology focused
whstl 4y ago
There was also an Electro revival in the 2000s that sounds nothing like the original, people called it electroclash but now I see a lot of people calling it just electro. In the end, the differences are minimal, and the more trivial they are, the more people squabble about it. Add or remove a keyboard pad and you have a new genre which people will hate.

kristopolous 4y ago

It's mostly a categorical problem - techno is a hard term to pin down. I've been thinking for the past few years that late 60s/early 70s prog-rock played a much more substantial role in it then I had initially assumed for the 20 years prior. Take say Tocatta from ELP's BSS album: https://youtu.be/Qk8jAuVzga8?t=494 https://youtu.be/Qk8jAuVzga8?t=494 ... that's 1973 - a careful ear will recognize many later standard patterns packed in that small clip. There's tons of these little 20-second or so clips that are 20 years ahead of their time in the prog-rock from the era. Along with that are space age and lounge jazz. Take Hugo Montenegro – Moog Power from 1969 for instance or the Mort Garson album under the name Atraxia from 1975. I used to think these weren't part of the story but I've been coming around on it and think of it as "technos" Xerox PARC era, the first attempt at the future world that electro and 80s disco took the lead on. We separate rock from techno categorically but I think it's a limitation and mistake if we're trying to figure out the influences and history. That's a modern distinction. E2-E4 came out of that, to put things back in to West Germany - an album heavily cited as influence regardless which originating American school you want to focus on (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0HyevZpQg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0HyevZpQg). Of course put that guy back in 1975 and you get more Xerox PARC style prog rock inventions, this time for electric guitar https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=khejrbgdc4w https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=khejrbgdc4w * Let's call these things Techno v.0.1-0.8 or so. This stuff is complicated. It's like how Wes Craven said the opening chords of the Gary Wright's pop song "Dream Weaver" was his inspiration for Freddy Krueger. (those first 30 seconds ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZKuzwPOefs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZKuzwPOefs) Things are weird. * if you like that style check out Michael C Sharp such as https://michaelcsharp.bandcamp.com/album/trip-further https://michaelcsharp.bandcamp.com/album/trip-further which will combine some mid-era, (also called Berlin school) analog synths as well

whstl 4y ago
> Let's call these things Techno v.0.1-0.8 or so. Yep, that’s definitely what it is. Still not stylistically homogenous as late techno, but lots of ideas and the foundation was already there.

noizejoy 4y ago

In my version of the history of Techno, "Yello"[0] also deserves very honorable mention. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yello https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yello

atchoo 4y ago

> there was already some music from the Frankfurt Tape Scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT_K28uMxNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT_K28uMxNY What tunes are you wanting to highlight? Skimming that video and I recognise Frankie Knuckles, Farley "Jackmaster" Funk, Mike "Hitman" Wilson (all Chicago House) and The KLF (British erm... Rave?).

projectazorian 4y ago

This post omits the substantial Japanese contributions to techno and I am not sure why. Technopop was not just some journalist’s genre descriptor for Kraftwerk. It was a rich genre originated in Japan by Yellow Magic Orchestra, who combined Kraftwerk’s sound with a more pop sensibility. Many of the Detroit techno originators have cited YMO alongside Kraftwerk as a key influence. Two key contributions from YMO come to mind, but there are many others: YMO’s “Technopolis,” recorded in 1979, might have been the first dance music track to use the word “techno”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek1oCwp7oms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek1oCwp7oms Their 1981 version of Ryuichi Sakamoto’s “Thousand Knives” is often cited as the first track to use the Roland TR-808: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2d37oySCfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2d37oySCfk ps: Technopop would later evolve into what we know as city pop, and eventually present-day J-pop. The sound quickly diverged from what we would recognize as techno; the early releases in the genre are the most important for this discussion, especially YMOs since those were by far the most accessible in the US. It’s all interesting to listen to though!