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COVID probably didn’t do the FAA any favors, but it goes back further than that[1]: it’s hard to entice people to a high-stress job when the president can decla

COVID probably didn’t do the FAA any favors, but it goes back further than that[1]: it’s hard to entice people to a high-stress job when the president can declare your union illegal and erase your entire career permanently. [1]: https://www.npr.org/2021/08/05/1025018833/looking-back-on-when-president-reagan-fired-air-traffic-controllers https://www.npr.org/2021/08/05/1025018833/looking-back-on-wh...

ars 4y ago
That's not unique to an air traffic controller. If you are warned if you don't go to work you'll be fired, and you don't go to work, then guess what? You will be fired. That's true in basically any industry.
- Scalene2 4y ago
  Have you ever heard of unions and strikes?
- woodruffw 4y ago
  ATCs are government employees, not in industry. And they belonged to a union, through which they engaged in collective bargaining (as is their right, under federal law). The actual circumstances of their firing are worth reading about: striking is legal for unions except for unions of government employees, for whom it is explicitly illegal. What makes the situation unusual is the extreme response by the Reagan administration.
- DangitBobby 4y ago
  Rely belies the notion that the arrangement between businesses and workers is symmetrical, doesn't it?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
vxNsr 4y ago
[flagged]
- dang 4y ago
  You broke the site guidelines with this comment and unfortunately have been breaking them in other places too recently (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35600201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35600201). Could you please stop this? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. We have to ban accounts that do it repeatedly, and we've already had to warn you about this more than once before - in fact it has been a problem for many years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27498333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27498333 (June 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27498325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27498325 (June 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23718800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23718800 (July 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17529091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17529091 (July 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15958523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15958523 (Dec 2017)
HarryHirsch 4y ago
Also the railways - when your president can override your union and force you back to work no need to make the railways your career.
irjustin 4y ago
This was 40 years ago? Regan? I don't think it directly affects people's thinking today.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  It was a watershed moment in labor relations, and is well within living memory. Combined with the fact that ATC requires specialized training, and it would be surprising for it to not affect peoples’ career choices.
  - irjustin 4y ago
    For you, I 100% agree, but for those who were "born into this problem" (including myself), this is simply "just-the-way-things-are"^tm. An analogy is, "how did 9/11 affect you?". I was born in 83. I can talk about this for hours. Anyone born after (or even near it) just know that TSA is a fact of life with that time when "airplanes crashed into some towers". -And this is the next generation of ATC controllers. Unions, labor relations, Regan, etc for those under 30 have no idea.
    - woodruffw 4y ago
      I’m under 30, so I was also “born into this problem”! Younger people also know aviation history, even if they don’t have the visceral experiences of the past. Reagan’s mass firing of ATCs is also a landmark in his domestic policy; I would expect most high school graduates to be at least aware of it.
      - irjustin 4y ago
        Then color me impressed. But sadly, I believe you're in the minority... a very small one, that is under 40 and have their viewpoint include Regan's actions.

ars 4y ago

That's not unique to an air traffic controller. If you are warned if you don't go to work you'll be fired, and you don't go to work, then guess what? You will be fired. That's true in basically any industry.

Scalene2 4y ago
Have you ever heard of unions and strikes?
woodruffw 4y ago
ATCs are government employees, not in industry. And they belonged to a union, through which they engaged in collective bargaining (as is their right, under federal law). The actual circumstances of their firing are worth reading about: striking is legal for unions except for unions of government employees, for whom it is explicitly illegal. What makes the situation unusual is the extreme response by the Reagan administration.
DangitBobby 4y ago
Rely belies the notion that the arrangement between businesses and workers is symmetrical, doesn't it?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

vxNsr 4y ago

[flagged]

dang 4y ago
You broke the site guidelines with this comment and unfortunately have been breaking them in other places too recently (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35600201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35600201). Could you please stop this? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. We have to ban accounts that do it repeatedly, and we've already had to warn you about this more than once before - in fact it has been a problem for many years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27498333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27498333 (June 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27498325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27498325 (June 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23718800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23718800 (July 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17529091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17529091 (July 2018) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15958523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15958523 (Dec 2017)

HarryHirsch 4y ago

Also the railways - when your president can override your union and force you back to work no need to make the railways your career.

irjustin 4y ago

This was 40 years ago? Regan? I don't think it directly affects people's thinking today.

woodruffw 4y ago
It was a watershed moment in labor relations, and is well within living memory. Combined with the fact that ATC requires specialized training, and it would be surprising for it to not affect peoples’ career choices.
- irjustin 4y ago
  For you, I 100% agree, but for those who were "born into this problem" (including myself), this is simply "just-the-way-things-are"^tm. An analogy is, "how did 9/11 affect you?". I was born in 83. I can talk about this for hours. Anyone born after (or even near it) just know that TSA is a fact of life with that time when "airplanes crashed into some towers". -And this is the next generation of ATC controllers. Unions, labor relations, Regan, etc for those under 30 have no idea.
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    I’m under 30, so I was also “born into this problem”! Younger people also know aviation history, even if they don’t have the visceral experiences of the past. Reagan’s mass firing of ATCs is also a landmark in his domestic policy; I would expect most high school graduates to be at least aware of it.
    - irjustin 4y ago
      Then color me impressed. But sadly, I believe you're in the minority... a very small one, that is under 40 and have their viewpoint include Regan's actions.