10 ms·

Why would you do that?

ChuckMcM 4y ago
Two reasons, the first being to run an experiment whose result is predicted by the paper, in order to confirm the science in the paper. The second being to mitigate the accumulation of insects around my campsite. While it is true that insect populations world wide have been impacted by the commercial deployment of pesticides by large agricultural operations, it is not true that populations outside that particular affect are negatively affected. Insects, as a fauna, have an extraordinarily effective reproductive cycle relative to the natural hazards they encounter every day. The most recent article about excess honeybee populations was a good example of how honeybees that are outside of the risk zone are not in any danger of becoming extinct but can and do displace important local pollinators. A non-persistent local light trap is the ideal mitigation strategy for insects in a particular regions because it leaves no lasting footprint, doesn't contaminate the food chain, and has zero net impact on the overall population density of the insects.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  The first rule of any bug trap is to put it in your neighbors site. Traps attract more than they kill.
  - kingcharles 4y ago
    This had never crossed my mind before but seems reasonable in retrospect. Essentially you are saying that bug zappers actually exasperate the problem they are trying to solve and it would be better to not use one?
    - ChatGTP 4y ago
      Same for swatting bugs, the smell of the squished bugs can sometimes make for more bugs come along.
      - beerandt 4y ago
        I've been battling the Japanese Lady Beatles at my house every winter since we've moved in, and it's taught me so much about both of these things- and that most seo results about insect traps etc are entirely wrong about. I haven't figured out the sweetspot for attractant trap placement yet. It's not inside or attached to your camp or house. But I know that cold, dry, nonstressed deaths for those that do intrude minimizes the ultimate number that invade via that route. Don't heat them, including by cleaning then up with a standard vacuum. Interesting facts (according to me): their smell that attracts others is one of those like asparagus, that only some people seem to sense. But to me smells like burning peanut butter toast crossed with a kaolin/ clay. Also they hate vibrations/ noise and will aggressively attack and bite in retaliation.
        interfixus 4y ago
        > I've been battling the Japanese Lady Beatles You have a Yoko Ono infestation?
  - dsjoerg 4y ago
    Depends on the characteristics of the trap, the bait and the bug, doesn't it? A highly attractive trap with a steep drop-off, and large and effective kill zone, and a kind of bug with a small but active nightly migration radius (when near campers) (compared to the trap attraction radius) might quickly attract and kill all the bugs that will come into that radius that night. When you kill all those bugs in the first hour of the night, does that leave a noticeable excess-food signal in the region where the dead bugs use to be?
  - ChuckMcM 4y ago
    Here the science suggests that just having a light isn't an attractant. It just happens to confuse the bugs flying by. Statisically they would be no more likely to go to the neighbors site or yours. Of course it also suggests that if you surrounded your site with lights that it could create a "light shield" which would disrupt the flying pattern of any bug that was on a vector that passed by your site. That suggests another interesting test which would be to use a bunch of rope lights to create a complete circle around your site to disrupt all bug flights going in or out of your area. Presumably it could create a higher density at the perimeter of disrupted bugs.
    - danans 4y ago
      > That suggests another interesting test which would be to use a bunch of rope lights to create a complete circle around your site A bug Faraday cage. Neat. Though it could reduce the ambiance of camping by limiting the view of the stars.
    - martyvis 4y ago
      That's rather interesting. In late summer when I think there are lot of bugs in the grass, I would find if I had my headlamp with the default white light (even fairly dim) they tended hit my face more to my liking when walking in my backyard. But putting on the red LED almost none annoyed me.
      - ChuckMcM 4y ago
        Again, per the paper, the night sky is actually pretty luminous and nominally the bugs can still orient "up" with their top toward the night sky. If your red light was comparable to the illumination flux from the night sky you would see this effect.
      - pfannkuchen 4y ago
        It is really entertaining that you would appear to have a specific preference about just how bugs hit your face.
        4y ago
- dylan604 4y ago
  >The second being to mitigate the accumulation of insects around my campsite. If this was your house, maybe, okay. However, when you go camping, you are technically a guest in the bug's house.
  - worthless-trash 4y ago
    on a long enough timeframe, we're all guests in the bugs house.
    - pkdpic 4y ago
      Heck yeah we are. Also wherever your house is and whenever it was built theres a 100% chance it was built on a bugs house and theres definitely a haunted mass grave of insects under and around it.
      - dylan604 4y ago
        yes, but there was proper notice given, and the planning permits were on display that construction was going to be occurring. there was plenty of time to relocate rather waking up one day and having the color yellow front of mind and needlessly laying down in front of the equipment.
        worthless-trash 4y ago
        At least the plans weren't on display It in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.”
    - EntrePrescott 4y ago
      all the more reason - whatever the observed timeframe - for us humans to not behave like assholes towards insects and other life or nature in general.
      - xpe 4y ago
- aziaziazi 4y ago
  > run an experiment whose result is predicted by the paper, in order to confirm the science in the paper Why would you do that ? I understand the science process but if you do this in an hardly reproductible environment (x setup in y location with z group of fauna), how can this confirm anything useful ? > The second being to mitigate the accumulation of insects around my campsite. Another reply recommend to use yellow light bulbs, that may also do the trick
  - aydyn 4y ago
    He could run a control. one bucket with light, one without.
- vlovich123 4y ago
  > Insects, as a fauna, have an extraordinarily effective reproductive cycle relative to the natural hazards they encounter every day. Sorry, these light traps you’re using are a natural phenomena the bugs have evolved to be effective against with breeding? Can you elaborate on that line of training?
- sylware 4y ago
  This does recall my youth (in my country): when with my parents we were driving on highways, I recall clearly the insects crashing into the windshield which would have been to be cleanup after a few hours of driving. This has not being happening anymore for a 2 decades...
  - sbst32 4y ago
    What country is that? For me it is still happening in any country I drive.
    - sylware 4y ago
      France, and I meant A LOT of insects VERY FAST.
  - iLemming 4y ago
    The cars also improved aerodynamically. Modern cars designed to minimize the dead insect build up on the windshield. I suppose you're not driving the same old car for the past two decades?

Two reasons, the first being to run an experiment whose result is predicted by the paper, in order to confirm the science in the paper. The second being to mitigate the accumulation of insects around my campsite. While it is true that insect populations world wide have been impacted by the commercial deployment of pesticides by large agricultural operations, it is not true that populations outside that particular affect are negatively affected. Insects, as a fauna, have an extraordinarily effective reproductive cycle relative to the natural hazards they encounter every day. The most recent article about excess honeybee populations was a good example of how honeybees that are outside of the risk zone are not in any danger of becoming extinct but can and do displace important local pollinators. A non-persistent local light trap is the ideal mitigation strategy for insects in a particular regions because it leaves no lasting footprint, doesn't contaminate the food chain, and has zero net impact on the overall population density of the insects.

jvanderbot 4y ago
The first rule of any bug trap is to put it in your neighbors site. Traps attract more than they kill.
- kingcharles 4y ago
  This had never crossed my mind before but seems reasonable in retrospect. Essentially you are saying that bug zappers actually exasperate the problem they are trying to solve and it would be better to not use one?
  - ChatGTP 4y ago
    Same for swatting bugs, the smell of the squished bugs can sometimes make for more bugs come along.
    - beerandt 4y ago
      I've been battling the Japanese Lady Beatles at my house every winter since we've moved in, and it's taught me so much about both of these things- and that most seo results about insect traps etc are entirely wrong about. I haven't figured out the sweetspot for attractant trap placement yet. It's not inside or attached to your camp or house. But I know that cold, dry, nonstressed deaths for those that do intrude minimizes the ultimate number that invade via that route. Don't heat them, including by cleaning then up with a standard vacuum. Interesting facts (according to me): their smell that attracts others is one of those like asparagus, that only some people seem to sense. But to me smells like burning peanut butter toast crossed with a kaolin/ clay. Also they hate vibrations/ noise and will aggressively attack and bite in retaliation.
      - interfixus 4y ago
        > I've been battling the Japanese Lady Beatles You have a Yoko Ono infestation?
- dsjoerg 4y ago
  Depends on the characteristics of the trap, the bait and the bug, doesn't it? A highly attractive trap with a steep drop-off, and large and effective kill zone, and a kind of bug with a small but active nightly migration radius (when near campers) (compared to the trap attraction radius) might quickly attract and kill all the bugs that will come into that radius that night. When you kill all those bugs in the first hour of the night, does that leave a noticeable excess-food signal in the region where the dead bugs use to be?
- ChuckMcM 4y ago
  Here the science suggests that just having a light isn't an attractant. It just happens to confuse the bugs flying by. Statisically they would be no more likely to go to the neighbors site or yours. Of course it also suggests that if you surrounded your site with lights that it could create a "light shield" which would disrupt the flying pattern of any bug that was on a vector that passed by your site. That suggests another interesting test which would be to use a bunch of rope lights to create a complete circle around your site to disrupt all bug flights going in or out of your area. Presumably it could create a higher density at the perimeter of disrupted bugs.
  - danans 4y ago
    > That suggests another interesting test which would be to use a bunch of rope lights to create a complete circle around your site A bug Faraday cage. Neat. Though it could reduce the ambiance of camping by limiting the view of the stars.
  - martyvis 4y ago
    That's rather interesting. In late summer when I think there are lot of bugs in the grass, I would find if I had my headlamp with the default white light (even fairly dim) they tended hit my face more to my liking when walking in my backyard. But putting on the red LED almost none annoyed me.
    - ChuckMcM 4y ago
      Again, per the paper, the night sky is actually pretty luminous and nominally the bugs can still orient "up" with their top toward the night sky. If your red light was comparable to the illumination flux from the night sky you would see this effect.
    - pfannkuchen 4y ago
      It is really entertaining that you would appear to have a specific preference about just how bugs hit your face.
      - 4y ago
dylan604 4y ago
>The second being to mitigate the accumulation of insects around my campsite. If this was your house, maybe, okay. However, when you go camping, you are technically a guest in the bug's house.
- worthless-trash 4y ago
  on a long enough timeframe, we're all guests in the bugs house.
  - pkdpic 4y ago
    Heck yeah we are. Also wherever your house is and whenever it was built theres a 100% chance it was built on a bugs house and theres definitely a haunted mass grave of insects under and around it.
    - dylan604 4y ago
      yes, but there was proper notice given, and the planning permits were on display that construction was going to be occurring. there was plenty of time to relocate rather waking up one day and having the color yellow front of mind and needlessly laying down in front of the equipment.
      - worthless-trash 4y ago
        At least the plans weren't on display It in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.”
  - EntrePrescott 4y ago
    all the more reason - whatever the observed timeframe - for us humans to not behave like assholes towards insects and other life or nature in general.
    - xpe 4y ago
aziaziazi 4y ago
> run an experiment whose result is predicted by the paper, in order to confirm the science in the paper Why would you do that ? I understand the science process but if you do this in an hardly reproductible environment (x setup in y location with z group of fauna), how can this confirm anything useful ? > The second being to mitigate the accumulation of insects around my campsite. Another reply recommend to use yellow light bulbs, that may also do the trick
- aydyn 4y ago
  He could run a control. one bucket with light, one without.
vlovich123 4y ago
> Insects, as a fauna, have an extraordinarily effective reproductive cycle relative to the natural hazards they encounter every day. Sorry, these light traps you’re using are a natural phenomena the bugs have evolved to be effective against with breeding? Can you elaborate on that line of training?
sylware 4y ago
This does recall my youth (in my country): when with my parents we were driving on highways, I recall clearly the insects crashing into the windshield which would have been to be cleanup after a few hours of driving. This has not being happening anymore for a 2 decades...
- sbst32 4y ago
  What country is that? For me it is still happening in any country I drive.
  - sylware 4y ago
    France, and I meant A LOT of insects VERY FAST.
- iLemming 4y ago
  The cars also improved aerodynamically. Modern cars designed to minimize the dead insect build up on the windshield. I suppose you're not driving the same old car for the past two decades?