6 ms·

That was a great read. I particularly liked that the dorsal orientation was strong enough that a light below the insect would invert it, even if that meant maki

That was a great read. I particularly liked that the dorsal orientation was strong enough that a light below the insect would invert it, even if that meant making it crash. I'm going to build an immersible lamp that I can put into a bucket with a layer of oil on the top (viscous fluid) so that the lamp is just below the surface of the oil. Based on the reasoning of this paper, it should result in flying insects inverting and doing a dive into the oil to their demise.

agentgumshoe 4y ago
Why would you do that?
- ChuckMcM 4y ago
  Two reasons, the first being to run an experiment whose result is predicted by the paper, in order to confirm the science in the paper. The second being to mitigate the accumulation of insects around my campsite. While it is true that insect populations world wide have been impacted by the commercial deployment of pesticides by large agricultural operations, it is not true that populations outside that particular affect are negatively affected. Insects, as a fauna, have an extraordinarily effective reproductive cycle relative to the natural hazards they encounter every day. The most recent article about excess honeybee populations was a good example of how honeybees that are outside of the risk zone are not in any danger of becoming extinct but can and do displace important local pollinators. A non-persistent local light trap is the ideal mitigation strategy for insects in a particular regions because it leaves no lasting footprint, doesn't contaminate the food chain, and has zero net impact on the overall population density of the insects.
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    The first rule of any bug trap is to put it in your neighbors site. Traps attract more than they kill.
    - kingcharles 4y ago
      This had never crossed my mind before but seems reasonable in retrospect. Essentially you are saying that bug zappers actually exasperate the problem they are trying to solve and it would be better to not use one?
      - ChatGTP 4y ago
        Same for swatting bugs, the smell of the squished bugs can sometimes make for more bugs come along.
        beerandt 4y ago
        I've been battling the Japanese Lady Beatles at my house every winter since we've moved in, and it's taught me so much about both of these things- and that most seo results about insect traps etc are entirely wrong about. I haven't figured out the sweetspot for attractant trap placement yet. It's not inside or attached to your camp or house. But I know that cold, dry, nonstressed deaths for those that do intrude minimizes the ultimate number that invade via that route. Don't heat them, including by cleaning then up with a standard vacuum. Interesting facts (according to me): their smell that attracts others is one of those like asparagus, that only some people seem to sense. But to me smells like burning peanut butter toast crossed with a kaolin/ clay. Also they hate vibrations/ noise and will aggressively attack and bite in retaliation.
        interfixus 4y ago
        > I've been battling the Japanese Lady Beatles You have a Yoko Ono infestation?
    - dsjoerg 4y ago
      Depends on the characteristics of the trap, the bait and the bug, doesn't it? A highly attractive trap with a steep drop-off, and large and effective kill zone, and a kind of bug with a small but active nightly migration radius (when near campers) (compared to the trap attraction radius) might quickly attract and kill all the bugs that will come into that radius that night. When you kill all those bugs in the first hour of the night, does that leave a noticeable excess-food signal in the region where the dead bugs use to be?
  - dylan604 4y ago
    >The second being to mitigate the accumulation of insects around my campsite. If this was your house, maybe, okay. However, when you go camping, you are technically a guest in the bug's house.
    - worthless-trash 4y ago
      on a long enough timeframe, we're all guests in the bugs house.
      - pkdpic 4y ago
        Heck yeah we are. Also wherever your house is and whenever it was built theres a 100% chance it was built on a bugs house and theres definitely a haunted mass grave of insects under and around it.
        dylan604 4y ago
        yes, but there was proper notice given, and the planning permits were on display that construction was going to be occurring. there was plenty of time to relocate rather waking up one day and having the color yellow front of mind and needlessly laying down in front of the equipment.
        worthless-trash 4y ago
        At least the plans weren't on display It in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.”
      - EntrePrescott 4y ago
        all the more reason - whatever the observed timeframe - for us humans to not behave like assholes towards insects and other life or nature in general.
        xpe 4y ago
  - aziaziazi 4y ago
    > run an experiment whose result is predicted by the paper, in order to confirm the science in the paper Why would you do that ? I understand the science process but if you do this in an hardly reproductible environment (x setup in y location with z group of fauna), how can this confirm anything useful ? > The second being to mitigate the accumulation of insects around my campsite. Another reply recommend to use yellow light bulbs, that may also do the trick
    - aydyn 4y ago
      He could run a control. one bucket with light, one without.
  - vlovich123 4y ago
    > Insects, as a fauna, have an extraordinarily effective reproductive cycle relative to the natural hazards they encounter every day. Sorry, these light traps you’re using are a natural phenomena the bugs have evolved to be effective against with breeding? Can you elaborate on that line of training?
  - sylware 4y ago
    This does recall my youth (in my country): when with my parents we were driving on highways, I recall clearly the insects crashing into the windshield which would have been to be cleanup after a few hours of driving. This has not being happening anymore for a 2 decades...
    - sbst32 4y ago
      What country is that? For me it is still happening in any country I drive.
      - sylware 4y ago
        France, and I meant A LOT of insects VERY FAST.
    - iLemming 4y ago
      The cars also improved aerodynamically. Modern cars designed to minimize the dead insect build up on the windshield. I suppose you're not driving the same old car for the past two decades?
ChatGTP 4y ago
Sounds like a pretty scummy thing to do, especially considering insects contribute to your ongoing survival? What about turning lights off around your house a night do they don’t come near you and forget the oil ? You can live in harmony with insects.
- MagicMoonlight 4y ago
  [flagged]
- labster 4y ago
  Nice try, chatbot, but your vegan-esque moralization is just a cover for your real goal: get humans to catch more insect-borne diseases so you can take over.
- jhanschoo 4y ago
  The amount of biomass you kill in one night at a campsite with such a light is very insignificant.
- progman32 4y ago
  You're getting a lot of strong reactions here, so I'll just stand up and say I agree with the point I think you're making, which is that the cavalier attitude some people have towards killing harmless insects is misplaced, especially when interactions can be mitigated easily. I'm not so sure it's as simple as turning lights off, though. I do not hold the same opinion on disease carrying insects. They, regrettably, must be eliminated where people live. It's unclear which insects op is intending to kill. Around here such a campsite trap would net almost exclusively mosquitoes, which count as disease vectors to my eyes.
  - wernercd 4y ago
    "harmless" They will do everything in their power to kill and eat you and give you diseases. We do need them but harmless? Mother Nature is anything but harmless.
  - orbisvicis 4y ago
TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
Most flying insects can't see yellow light. I've used those anti-insect yellow lights in all fittings outside my house for years and they dramatically reduce the number and type of all insects, including spiders, hanging about.
- james-bcn 4y ago
  I've not heard of this before. Can you give more details about the lights?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
endorphine 4y ago
There are these traps which are blue-light lamps that emit a small (for humans) amount of electricity, that is however enough to kill the small insects that are attracted to it. On a summer night, you'll see it being full of insects after 1 hour of operation.
- cbzoiav 4y ago
  I think they're pretty high voltage / have a guard to stop humans touching the conductor? We used to have them in a lab I worked in and occasionally a larger insect (e.g. wasp) would get caught between two rows of the grid and you'd hear it spark / them cook...
  - yencabulator 4y ago
    There's variants where the light is in a location that is hard for insects to exit. I've seen 1) fan causing airflow that's hard to "fly upstream" in 2) funnel shapes that make entry easy, but finding the exit hard. These avoid the zap aspect, and use less power (LED and maybe fan).
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  They're not kidding when they say full either. I'm in Western Canada and mosquitoes are essentially the unofficial national bird. They big, aggressive, and numerous. Literally handfuls of dead mozzies after running that thing for a few hours. Is also why I started putting up bird feeders and nesting areas -- they control insects including the mosquitoes, and after seeing just how many were out there...
  - segmondy 4y ago
    If your house is sealed tight you can build a bat house, hat will control mosquitoes too.
    - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
      Be careful. Bats can contort to fit almost any hole in the house. They are effectively tiny mice. And just like nice, they make noises with their claws when they get into the walls (they will ryn when not airborne and quite fast too) And their poop will bring hordes of cockroaches....

agentgumshoe 4y ago

Why would you do that?

ChuckMcM 4y ago
Two reasons, the first being to run an experiment whose result is predicted by the paper, in order to confirm the science in the paper. The second being to mitigate the accumulation of insects around my campsite. While it is true that insect populations world wide have been impacted by the commercial deployment of pesticides by large agricultural operations, it is not true that populations outside that particular affect are negatively affected. Insects, as a fauna, have an extraordinarily effective reproductive cycle relative to the natural hazards they encounter every day. The most recent article about excess honeybee populations was a good example of how honeybees that are outside of the risk zone are not in any danger of becoming extinct but can and do displace important local pollinators. A non-persistent local light trap is the ideal mitigation strategy for insects in a particular regions because it leaves no lasting footprint, doesn't contaminate the food chain, and has zero net impact on the overall population density of the insects.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  The first rule of any bug trap is to put it in your neighbors site. Traps attract more than they kill.
  - kingcharles 4y ago
    This had never crossed my mind before but seems reasonable in retrospect. Essentially you are saying that bug zappers actually exasperate the problem they are trying to solve and it would be better to not use one?
    - ChatGTP 4y ago
      Same for swatting bugs, the smell of the squished bugs can sometimes make for more bugs come along.
      - beerandt 4y ago
        I've been battling the Japanese Lady Beatles at my house every winter since we've moved in, and it's taught me so much about both of these things- and that most seo results about insect traps etc are entirely wrong about. I haven't figured out the sweetspot for attractant trap placement yet. It's not inside or attached to your camp or house. But I know that cold, dry, nonstressed deaths for those that do intrude minimizes the ultimate number that invade via that route. Don't heat them, including by cleaning then up with a standard vacuum. Interesting facts (according to me): their smell that attracts others is one of those like asparagus, that only some people seem to sense. But to me smells like burning peanut butter toast crossed with a kaolin/ clay. Also they hate vibrations/ noise and will aggressively attack and bite in retaliation.
        interfixus 4y ago
        > I've been battling the Japanese Lady Beatles You have a Yoko Ono infestation?
  - dsjoerg 4y ago
    Depends on the characteristics of the trap, the bait and the bug, doesn't it? A highly attractive trap with a steep drop-off, and large and effective kill zone, and a kind of bug with a small but active nightly migration radius (when near campers) (compared to the trap attraction radius) might quickly attract and kill all the bugs that will come into that radius that night. When you kill all those bugs in the first hour of the night, does that leave a noticeable excess-food signal in the region where the dead bugs use to be?
- dylan604 4y ago
  >The second being to mitigate the accumulation of insects around my campsite. If this was your house, maybe, okay. However, when you go camping, you are technically a guest in the bug's house.
  - worthless-trash 4y ago
    on a long enough timeframe, we're all guests in the bugs house.
    - pkdpic 4y ago
      Heck yeah we are. Also wherever your house is and whenever it was built theres a 100% chance it was built on a bugs house and theres definitely a haunted mass grave of insects under and around it.
      - dylan604 4y ago
        yes, but there was proper notice given, and the planning permits were on display that construction was going to be occurring. there was plenty of time to relocate rather waking up one day and having the color yellow front of mind and needlessly laying down in front of the equipment.
        worthless-trash 4y ago
        At least the plans weren't on display It in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.”
    - EntrePrescott 4y ago
      all the more reason - whatever the observed timeframe - for us humans to not behave like assholes towards insects and other life or nature in general.
      - xpe 4y ago
- aziaziazi 4y ago
  > run an experiment whose result is predicted by the paper, in order to confirm the science in the paper Why would you do that ? I understand the science process but if you do this in an hardly reproductible environment (x setup in y location with z group of fauna), how can this confirm anything useful ? > The second being to mitigate the accumulation of insects around my campsite. Another reply recommend to use yellow light bulbs, that may also do the trick
  - aydyn 4y ago
    He could run a control. one bucket with light, one without.
- vlovich123 4y ago
  > Insects, as a fauna, have an extraordinarily effective reproductive cycle relative to the natural hazards they encounter every day. Sorry, these light traps you’re using are a natural phenomena the bugs have evolved to be effective against with breeding? Can you elaborate on that line of training?
- sylware 4y ago
  This does recall my youth (in my country): when with my parents we were driving on highways, I recall clearly the insects crashing into the windshield which would have been to be cleanup after a few hours of driving. This has not being happening anymore for a 2 decades...
  - sbst32 4y ago
    What country is that? For me it is still happening in any country I drive.
    - sylware 4y ago
      France, and I meant A LOT of insects VERY FAST.
  - iLemming 4y ago
    The cars also improved aerodynamically. Modern cars designed to minimize the dead insect build up on the windshield. I suppose you're not driving the same old car for the past two decades?

ChatGTP 4y ago

Sounds like a pretty scummy thing to do, especially considering insects contribute to your ongoing survival? What about turning lights off around your house a night do they don’t come near you and forget the oil ? You can live in harmony with insects.

MagicMoonlight 4y ago
[flagged]
labster 4y ago
Nice try, chatbot, but your vegan-esque moralization is just a cover for your real goal: get humans to catch more insect-borne diseases so you can take over.
jhanschoo 4y ago
The amount of biomass you kill in one night at a campsite with such a light is very insignificant.
progman32 4y ago
You're getting a lot of strong reactions here, so I'll just stand up and say I agree with the point I think you're making, which is that the cavalier attitude some people have towards killing harmless insects is misplaced, especially when interactions can be mitigated easily. I'm not so sure it's as simple as turning lights off, though. I do not hold the same opinion on disease carrying insects. They, regrettably, must be eliminated where people live. It's unclear which insects op is intending to kill. Around here such a campsite trap would net almost exclusively mosquitoes, which count as disease vectors to my eyes.
- wernercd 4y ago
  "harmless" They will do everything in their power to kill and eat you and give you diseases. We do need them but harmless? Mother Nature is anything but harmless.
- orbisvicis 4y ago

TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago

Most flying insects can't see yellow light. I've used those anti-insect yellow lights in all fittings outside my house for years and they dramatically reduce the number and type of all insects, including spiders, hanging about.

james-bcn 4y ago
I've not heard of this before. Can you give more details about the lights?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

endorphine 4y ago

There are these traps which are blue-light lamps that emit a small (for humans) amount of electricity, that is however enough to kill the small insects that are attracted to it. On a summer night, you'll see it being full of insects after 1 hour of operation.

cbzoiav 4y ago
I think they're pretty high voltage / have a guard to stop humans touching the conductor? We used to have them in a lab I worked in and occasionally a larger insect (e.g. wasp) would get caught between two rows of the grid and you'd hear it spark / them cook...
- yencabulator 4y ago
  There's variants where the light is in a location that is hard for insects to exit. I've seen 1) fan causing airflow that's hard to "fly upstream" in 2) funnel shapes that make entry easy, but finding the exit hard. These avoid the zap aspect, and use less power (LED and maybe fan).
red-iron-pine 4y ago
They're not kidding when they say full either. I'm in Western Canada and mosquitoes are essentially the unofficial national bird. They big, aggressive, and numerous. Literally handfuls of dead mozzies after running that thing for a few hours. Is also why I started putting up bird feeders and nesting areas -- they control insects including the mosquitoes, and after seeing just how many were out there...
- segmondy 4y ago
  If your house is sealed tight you can build a bat house, hat will control mosquitoes too.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
    Be careful. Bats can contort to fit almost any hole in the house. They are effectively tiny mice. And just like nice, they make noises with their claws when they get into the walls (they will ryn when not airborne and quite fast too) And their poop will bring hordes of cockroaches....