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> Either way, no one is talking about taking away the right of self-defense in general; we've been talking about restricting the presence of firearms at a confe

> Either way, no one is talking about taking away the right of self-defense in general; we've been talking about restricting the presence of firearms at a conference. As always, when you are attacked you have the right to defend yourself. Taking away the tools to do it is the same as taking away the right for the weaker of us. Especially women. If a woman carries a gun to a conference, she has a good way of avoiding sexual assault. Without one, not so much. > So you're admitting there are still mass shootings at rural schools despite a culture of gun safety and proliferation of guns in the community? That is not what I said. I know of no shootings at rural schools off of the top of my head. > Because you felt less safe without it, it seems. You were afraid, then equipped a weapon, then you were less afraid. Okay, no shame in that. Uh, no. I said I felt perfectly safe in the place where it happened before it happened. I wear my knife by habit. I put it on when I dress in the morning and take it off when I get ready for bed. I wear it even when I never leave the house. Trust me: I feel perfectly safe at home and would still feel that way even if I didn't carry the knife. > Politicians are passing laws to make it easier for people to buy guns Funny. I haven't heard of any. > In the news right now is the story that the governor of Texas aspires to pardon a man who was found guilty of murder with a gun during those riots. Tell me, what message do you think this sends to gun enthusiasts? Do you think it will make gun culture more safe, or less safe? More safe. What you leave out (whether intentional or not) is that the man who was killed put a gun in the face of the man who killed him. The man who killed him did nothing before that, but I guarantee you that when someone puts a gun in my face, I'm going to shoot. That man was only convicted because the prosecutor withheld evidence. > also have been subjected to active shooter drills their entire childhood -- something that's foreign to you and me. I had those too. In Idaho. Where there had never been an actual active shooter. It's part of being prepared. > Today, there is no sick knife culture where people use knives to kill children, teens, people in grocery stores and churches. There is in the UK, which just shows that with the bad culture, killers would use knives in the absence of guns. > The reason your gun isn't welcome at a Rust conference is because your culture of gun safety died. If it did, by the way, it's also the fault of politicians claiming that AR-15's are "weapons of war," that nobody needs them or even sport rifles, that nobody needs handguns because the police exist. The sick gun culture comes from gun bros and the people trying to ban guns by claiming that they are only used for nefarious purposes. This is one reason the safe gun culture is foreign to you: because people are claiming it doesn't exist. > And let's be honest, you're voting for the people who are helping kill your culture of gun safety, right? Uh, no. Not unless the other option is worse. > The NRA used to be an organization that cared about gun safety, but now they're basically a PR branch and lobbyists for gun manufacturers. I don't support the NRA. > The Republican party leadership doesn't care about gun safety, because if they did they would pass common-sense gun reform laws, which are supported by the majority of even conservatives! Republican politicians don't care what voters think. They care what lobbyists think. I hate lobbyists. But what are "common sense gun reform laws"? Taking away guns? No, that's not common sense. Making it harder to get guns? Then you would just tip the balance of safe gun owners and unsafe gun owners in favor of unsafe gun owners because they'll go through the extra hoops, or buy illegally. A lot of mass shootings could be stopped by good old-fashioned police work. A lot of mass shooters are known to law enforcement before anything happened, but people didn't follow through. > But you're still voting for them, right? Not if I can help it. But if you put two politicians in front of me and one says he will take away my tools of self-defense, as well as my future children because I'm Christian and don't buy into the current orthodoxy, I'm probably going to vote for the one that doesn't say that, even if he doesn't do anything. > Yes, absolutely! Do this! But how? By making it a duty, like jury duty or conscription, except it isn't selectively applied, and it applies once everyone reaches adulthood. You can even make it cost, like drivers' licenses. I'm okay with that if it's only to recoup the cost. I'm okay with getting it renewed every year as well. And the end result will be that everyone will call out the lies by politicians and sick gun bros. Women will have the training they need to level the playing field against men. And nowhere would be safe for killers to shoot with impunity.

ModernMech 4y ago
What I'm hearing from you is a lot of excuse making and rationalization. This kind of thinking maybe worked 10... 20 years ago. But not in 2023. 4 dead and 28+ injured at a birthday party while we were having this conversation over the weekend. In Alabama of all places, not a liberal progressive bastion with no guns. There are plenty of guns in Alabama. And yet you're not even safe at a birthday party. Add it to the list. You say that guns can protect women from sexual assault, but that's a rationalization. If you want to protect women, they are very vocal right now about how they want to be protected, and by and large they're not asking for guns. They are asking for access to healthcare and liberty over their own bodies, which the people you vote for are taking from them. So please spare me the intonations about how a woman can use a gun to protect herself from men. No, women are being targeted right now by men using the law, and no matter how many guns women have, they cannot protect themselves from that. > The sick gun culture comes from gun bros and the people trying to ban guns by claiming that they are only used for nefarious purposes. You point out that people who aren't familiar with guns... aren't familiar with guns. Sure. The reason why they point to these weapons as a danger and menace to society is that the only time they encounter them is when they're at the other end of the barrel. Incidentally, how often have you ever found yourself at the other end of the barrel? There are people in this country who have survived multiple mass shootings. But have you personally ever been in the position where you were being hunted by a person armed to the teeth? Has a person ever pointed gun and shot at you with the intent to murder you? I understand you don't want to be in that situation, and if you were maybe you would feel safe because you had your gun or knife on you. But I'm wondering if you've actually been hunted by a person with a gun who aimed to kill you. I'm very curious to know. Because many of the people who have been in that situation come out of it very against guns. And yes, they call for banning such weapons, because they see what they did to their friends' bodies and their own minds, and they can't comprehend why you need it for anything at all except for killing people. Others go in the opposite direction and start stockpiling an arsenal because they will never feel safe again. So if we call these reactions "sick gun culture", we must note that the catalyst for these extreme positions (no guns / all the guns) are mass shootings themselves. > That is not what I said. I know of no shootings at rural schools off of the top of my head. https://voanews.com/a/mass-school-shootings-mostly-in-small-us-towns/4408321.html https://voanews.com/a/mass-school-shootings-mostly-in-small-... The Associated Press examined records for the 10 deadliest shootings in American schools. All but one of those attacks took place in a town with fewer than 75,000 people. Most were in communities of less than 50,000 people. Uvalde is a town of 15k people in a red state with a high percentage of gun owners and a strong culture of gun ownership. And yet, a psycho mowed down children at a school, the police with guns and all the firepower in the world did nothing except hold parents back. > But what are "common sense gun reform laws"? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/most-americans-support-stricter-gun-laws-new-poll-says https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/most-americans-support... Red flag laws, increased mental health support, closing loopholes on background checks, requiring permits, requiring training, banning the sale of high capacity magazines, banning the sale of assault-style weapons. These are the things Americans agree on at rates over 50% (but we're really looking at 60%-80% support, which is near universal as you can get in America), so we call it "common sense". > Not if I can help it. Then you are tho. You're telling me you're part of the problem, because they are the problem. You don't support the NRA, but the people you vote for do. By the way, no one is saying they're going to take your gun or your knife. The above proposals don't do that, so who exactly was telling you they were going to take your gun away except fringe politicians? > By making it a duty, like jury duty or conscription, except it isn't selectively applied, and it applies once everyone reaches adulthood. Bring these ideas to your congressperson, who I assume is Republican, and ask them why they aren't on the table. I agree with all of this. But you're not voting for people who will ever do these things, so they will never happen. Again, this is a failure of your gun culture. Please proliferate your culture of gun safety, rather than voting for people who will do nothing except kill safe gun culture. Please run for office yourself and propose these ideas. You have a credible voice as a gun owner and enthusiast, and other gun owners will listen to you.

ModernMech 4y ago

What I'm hearing from you is a lot of excuse making and rationalization. This kind of thinking maybe worked 10... 20 years ago. But not in 2023. 4 dead and 28+ injured at a birthday party while we were having this conversation over the weekend. In Alabama of all places, not a liberal progressive bastion with no guns. There are plenty of guns in Alabama. And yet you're not even safe at a birthday party. Add it to the list. You say that guns can protect women from sexual assault, but that's a rationalization. If you want to protect women, they are very vocal right now about how they want to be protected, and by and large they're not asking for guns. They are asking for access to healthcare and liberty over their own bodies, which the people you vote for are taking from them. So please spare me the intonations about how a woman can use a gun to protect herself from men. No, women are being targeted right now by men using the law, and no matter how many guns women have, they cannot protect themselves from that. > The sick gun culture comes from gun bros and the people trying to ban guns by claiming that they are only used for nefarious purposes. You point out that people who aren't familiar with guns... aren't familiar with guns. Sure. The reason why they point to these weapons as a danger and menace to society is that the only time they encounter them is when they're at the other end of the barrel. Incidentally, how often have you ever found yourself at the other end of the barrel? There are people in this country who have survived multiple mass shootings. But have you personally ever been in the position where you were being hunted by a person armed to the teeth? Has a person ever pointed gun and shot at you with the intent to murder you? I understand you don't want to be in that situation, and if you were maybe you would feel safe because you had your gun or knife on you. But I'm wondering if you've actually been hunted by a person with a gun who aimed to kill you. I'm very curious to know. Because many of the people who have been in that situation come out of it very against guns. And yes, they call for banning such weapons, because they see what they did to their friends' bodies and their own minds, and they can't comprehend why you need it for anything at all except for killing people. Others go in the opposite direction and start stockpiling an arsenal because they will never feel safe again. So if we call these reactions "sick gun culture", we must note that the catalyst for these extreme positions (no guns / all the guns) are mass shootings themselves. > That is not what I said. I know of no shootings at rural schools off of the top of my head. https://voanews.com/a/mass-school-shootings-mostly-in-small-us-towns/4408321.html https://voanews.com/a/mass-school-shootings-mostly-in-small-... The Associated Press examined records for the 10 deadliest shootings in American schools. All but one of those attacks took place in a town with fewer than 75,000 people. Most were in communities of less than 50,000 people. Uvalde is a town of 15k people in a red state with a high percentage of gun owners and a strong culture of gun ownership. And yet, a psycho mowed down children at a school, the police with guns and all the firepower in the world did nothing except hold parents back. > But what are "common sense gun reform laws"? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/most-americans-support-stricter-gun-laws-new-poll-says https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/most-americans-support... Red flag laws, increased mental health support, closing loopholes on background checks, requiring permits, requiring training, banning the sale of high capacity magazines, banning the sale of assault-style weapons. These are the things Americans agree on at rates over 50% (but we're really looking at 60%-80% support, which is near universal as you can get in America), so we call it "common sense". > Not if I can help it. Then you are tho. You're telling me you're part of the problem, because they are the problem. You don't support the NRA, but the people you vote for do. By the way, no one is saying they're going to take your gun or your knife. The above proposals don't do that, so who exactly was telling you they were going to take your gun away except fringe politicians? > By making it a duty, like jury duty or conscription, except it isn't selectively applied, and it applies once everyone reaches adulthood. Bring these ideas to your congressperson, who I assume is Republican, and ask them why they aren't on the table. I agree with all of this. But you're not voting for people who will ever do these things, so they will never happen. Again, this is a failure of your gun culture. Please proliferate your culture of gun safety, rather than voting for people who will do nothing except kill safe gun culture. Please run for office yourself and propose these ideas. You have a credible voice as a gun owner and enthusiast, and other gun owners will listen to you.