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Would you also want to charge commercial delivery vehicles $0.10/mile? They are also private businesses and they already pay gas tax. Do you realized the cost

by lowkey 3y ago

Would you also want to charge commercial delivery vehicles $0.10/mile? They are also private businesses and they already pay gas tax. Do you realized the cost will simply be passed on to the consumer in the end either way leading to higher inflation?

Gibbon1 3y ago
Why not? Large truck already don't pay for the damage they do to roads.
- lowkey 3y ago
  I’ve heard this before and if it is true I would be in favor of adjusting gas taxes on commercial vehicles to cover the cost of road maintenance. However, $0.10/mile sounds excessive and punitive and inflationary for all consumers. I would love to see some data to support your claim.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  Large trucks pay higher fees and require inspection
  - Gibbon1 3y ago
    Common knowledge that the extra taxes and fees paid by trucks don't cover the cost of the damage they do.
    - lowkey 3y ago
      Per this source [0] it appears you are correct. Trucks contribute 99% of wear and tear on the roads but pay only 35% of the cost. My take is that cars/pickups/suvs are overpaying by a lot and commercial trucks are underpaying by a lot. My biggest concern is that taxes, like inflation, only ever seem to go up, never down. In this case I would be in favor of correcting this inequality if we reduce gas taxes for standard vehicles while increasing taxes on commercial trucks, but given their track record I suspect governments will never reduce taxes, only increase them. [0] https://truecostblog.com/2009/06/02/the-hidden-trucking-industry-subsidy/ https://truecostblog.com/2009/06/02/the-hidden-trucking-indu...
      - dahdum 3y ago
        Personal vehicles are a luxury, why shouldn't they pay relatively more than commercial traffic?
        lowkey 3y ago
        In America personal vehicles are a necessity unless you live in the core of a city with adequate public transit of which there are only a handful. They are a necessity if you live in a small town, the suburbs, a rural area, an area with extreme weather, have a family with young children, etc. * In the US, 93% of households have access to a personal vehicle [0]. * 77.3% of respondents think owning a car is necessary [0] If we increase taxes on personal vehicles it would disproportionately impact lower income workers who can barely afford to get by as it is. Forcing a single mom on a low income such that she could no longer afford to drive would tax her 10’s of hours every week resulting in untold hardship. It would be a disaster. What you are advocating would only work if we invested trillions of dollars in transit infrastructure. Taxation or more debt isn’t enough to pay for that transformation without absolutely destroying the economy and the quality of life of hundreds of millions of Americans. Personal vehicles are only a luxury if you live in a fantasy. [0] https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/car-ownership-statistics/ https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/car-ownership-st...
- am44jnsf 3y ago
  Large trucks do things like delivery food to the grocer next to your apartment so that you can live. The road is a public good. Sometimes the tax we pay funds something we don't really use, and sometimes we use more than our tax adds up to. If you have a better system, make it happen.
zamnos 3y ago
Gas tax is only paid for by cars that use gasoline. With Uber pushing Teslas pretty heavily ($1,000 to the driver if they get drive a Tesla for Uber, which covers two months payment on a leased Model 3), I'd be okay charging a replacement fee. Batteries are heavy, which leads to increased wear and tear on roads, and the money for that comes out of the gas tax.
- lowkey 3y ago
  Should we also add a new tax to all electric vehicles who use the roads without paying gas tax? I could see an argument both ways but taxing electric vehicles would tend to negate the incentive to switch from polluting cars. Would you rather those Uber drivers pollute our air or would it make sense to encourage switching to zero emission vehicles?
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    Everyone needs to pay for their usage. Road taxes fix roads using gas as a tax was an easy way to charge for usage. Air pollution is a different issue and electric cars have rebates to encourage purchases.
brewdad 3y ago
Yes. The price will be passed on only if the market will bear it. If my soda is going to cost me 10 cents more because of taxes and I’m still willing to buy it, the soda companies should raise their prices 10 cents even without the tax.
- lowkey 3y ago
  The price of every single good would go up, including all food - not just soda, diapers, toilet paper, toothpaste - everything. Everything we consume is shipped and if the price of everything goes up the standard of living of everyone goes down. This would be a regressive tax that would disproportionately impact those who can least afford it. This would be incredibly inflationary and hurt the poorest the most. Bad idea.
singleshot_ 3y ago
IFTA would like a word with you.

by lowkey 3y ago

Gibbon1 3y ago

Why not? Large truck already don't pay for the damage they do to roads.

lowkey 3y ago
I’ve heard this before and if it is true I would be in favor of adjusting gas taxes on commercial vehicles to cover the cost of road maintenance. However, $0.10/mile sounds excessive and punitive and inflationary for all consumers. I would love to see some data to support your claim.
ipaddr 3y ago
Large trucks pay higher fees and require inspection
- Gibbon1 3y ago
  Common knowledge that the extra taxes and fees paid by trucks don't cover the cost of the damage they do.
  - lowkey 3y ago
    Per this source [0] it appears you are correct. Trucks contribute 99% of wear and tear on the roads but pay only 35% of the cost. My take is that cars/pickups/suvs are overpaying by a lot and commercial trucks are underpaying by a lot. My biggest concern is that taxes, like inflation, only ever seem to go up, never down. In this case I would be in favor of correcting this inequality if we reduce gas taxes for standard vehicles while increasing taxes on commercial trucks, but given their track record I suspect governments will never reduce taxes, only increase them. [0] https://truecostblog.com/2009/06/02/the-hidden-trucking-industry-subsidy/ https://truecostblog.com/2009/06/02/the-hidden-trucking-indu...
    - dahdum 3y ago
      Personal vehicles are a luxury, why shouldn't they pay relatively more than commercial traffic?
      - lowkey 3y ago
        In America personal vehicles are a necessity unless you live in the core of a city with adequate public transit of which there are only a handful. They are a necessity if you live in a small town, the suburbs, a rural area, an area with extreme weather, have a family with young children, etc. * In the US, 93% of households have access to a personal vehicle [0]. * 77.3% of respondents think owning a car is necessary [0] If we increase taxes on personal vehicles it would disproportionately impact lower income workers who can barely afford to get by as it is. Forcing a single mom on a low income such that she could no longer afford to drive would tax her 10’s of hours every week resulting in untold hardship. It would be a disaster. What you are advocating would only work if we invested trillions of dollars in transit infrastructure. Taxation or more debt isn’t enough to pay for that transformation without absolutely destroying the economy and the quality of life of hundreds of millions of Americans. Personal vehicles are only a luxury if you live in a fantasy. [0] https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/car-ownership-statistics/ https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/car-ownership-st...
am44jnsf 3y ago
Large trucks do things like delivery food to the grocer next to your apartment so that you can live. The road is a public good. Sometimes the tax we pay funds something we don't really use, and sometimes we use more than our tax adds up to. If you have a better system, make it happen.

zamnos 3y ago

Gas tax is only paid for by cars that use gasoline. With Uber pushing Teslas pretty heavily ($1,000 to the driver if they get drive a Tesla for Uber, which covers two months payment on a leased Model 3), I'd be okay charging a replacement fee. Batteries are heavy, which leads to increased wear and tear on roads, and the money for that comes out of the gas tax.

lowkey 3y ago
Should we also add a new tax to all electric vehicles who use the roads without paying gas tax? I could see an argument both ways but taxing electric vehicles would tend to negate the incentive to switch from polluting cars. Would you rather those Uber drivers pollute our air or would it make sense to encourage switching to zero emission vehicles?
- ipaddr 3y ago
  Everyone needs to pay for their usage. Road taxes fix roads using gas as a tax was an easy way to charge for usage. Air pollution is a different issue and electric cars have rebates to encourage purchases.

brewdad 3y ago

Yes. The price will be passed on only if the market will bear it. If my soda is going to cost me 10 cents more because of taxes and I’m still willing to buy it, the soda companies should raise their prices 10 cents even without the tax.

lowkey 3y ago
The price of every single good would go up, including all food - not just soda, diapers, toilet paper, toothpaste - everything. Everything we consume is shipped and if the price of everything goes up the standard of living of everyone goes down. This would be a regressive tax that would disproportionately impact those who can least afford it. This would be incredibly inflationary and hurt the poorest the most. Bad idea.

singleshot_ 3y ago

IFTA would like a word with you.