4 ms·

> Also in the UK contractors are paid a lot more than full time staff! low level staff maybe the big earners in UK finance are employees contractors don't ge

> Also in the UK contractors are paid a lot more than full time staff! low level staff maybe the big earners in UK finance are employees contractors don't get a bonus

OJFord 4y ago
Certainly industry dependent. OP is about 'big tech' though, not finance (proper fintech aside I suppose). I think 'contractors are paid more' generally (and in fairness somewhat necessarily) ignores that it's to compensate for other employee benefits. But it's ultimately a kind of pointness/trivial truth - 'the value of holiday and sick leave and job security and life assurance and pension contributions and [...] is non-zero!' - yes, of course it would be.
- dogma1138 4y ago
  It’s also true in general tech once you get to director or senior manager grade your short and long term incentive plans can be 50% of your BP and your BP isn’t going to be too shabby either. Contractors do get paid more but they don’t earn more at least not anymore after IR35 since they have a tax rate that is over 50% as they are also liable for the 15.5% employer national insurance contributions now. Overall contractors are far cheaper in the UK even at day rates of over £1000 and replacing people that earn high 5 to low six figures. They aren’t paid any bonus, there is no pension contribution there are no benefits and there is no liability for redundancy.
  - jimnotgym 4y ago
    All good points but it really does depend on the industry and the level. I have seen mid level jobs where the contractor is paid twice what the full time staff are, no bonus on either side. Your point about long term incentives is very dependent on company. I wish I had a scheme like that!
    - dogma1138 4y ago
      Long term incentives are pretty much stock options plus a bonus “top up” where X% of your bonus for the current year is paid to you again after Y years (usually 2 or 3). Stock options are usually available at most large traded companies, bonus top ups are usually for directors+ or senior managers in FAANG or other large US companies that tend to have more grades than UK ones. Then there are ofc various retention bonuses and allowances, but these tend to be pretty much just a pay increase without the social contributions liabilities to the employer.
  - YourDadVPN 4y ago
    You can contract outside IR-35 still, no? At least there were some advertised on LinkedIn last time I looked. If the contract is outside IR-35 then you can still claim expenses and pay corporate tax instead of (most) income tax.
    - OJFord 4y ago
      Does anyone advertise 'inside' IR35? I get tonnes too, but it'd be at my risk not the, err, employer's.
      - dogma1138 4y ago
        I haven’t seen any company that will take contractors outside of IR35 at least in London for more than a year now. The risk falls completely on the company these days. IR35 is a very nasty piece of legislation it’s difficult to even hire remote contractors outside of the UK with it without going through an established firm.
        YourDadVPN 4y ago
        Shorter than a year suits me. My goal with contracting is to have time off between contracts to have more energy and time to bootstrap some business ideas. It is a shame this legislation passed, I understand the concern about hidden employees/tax dodging but it seems they overshot a bit.
        OJFord 4y ago
        I think GP meant not noticed any such listings in the last 12 months, not that they were advertising a post with a duration less than a year.
        YourDadVPN 4y ago
        I didn't think he was advertising, but I did misinterpret it as him saying only shorter term contracts were available outside IR35.
gadders 4y ago
I think it depends. Certainly as a banking PM what I earnt as a contractor (outside ir35) is more than I earn as a permanent employee, even with a bonus.

> Also in the UK contractors are paid a lot more than full time staff! low level staff maybe the big earners in UK finance are employees contractors don't get a bonus

OJFord 4y ago

Certainly industry dependent. OP is about 'big tech' though, not finance (proper fintech aside I suppose). I think 'contractors are paid more' generally (and in fairness somewhat necessarily) ignores that it's to compensate for other employee benefits. But it's ultimately a kind of pointness/trivial truth - 'the value of holiday and sick leave and job security and life assurance and pension contributions and [...] is non-zero!' - yes, of course it would be.

dogma1138 4y ago
It’s also true in general tech once you get to director or senior manager grade your short and long term incentive plans can be 50% of your BP and your BP isn’t going to be too shabby either. Contractors do get paid more but they don’t earn more at least not anymore after IR35 since they have a tax rate that is over 50% as they are also liable for the 15.5% employer national insurance contributions now. Overall contractors are far cheaper in the UK even at day rates of over £1000 and replacing people that earn high 5 to low six figures. They aren’t paid any bonus, there is no pension contribution there are no benefits and there is no liability for redundancy.
- jimnotgym 4y ago
  All good points but it really does depend on the industry and the level. I have seen mid level jobs where the contractor is paid twice what the full time staff are, no bonus on either side. Your point about long term incentives is very dependent on company. I wish I had a scheme like that!
  - dogma1138 4y ago
    Long term incentives are pretty much stock options plus a bonus “top up” where X% of your bonus for the current year is paid to you again after Y years (usually 2 or 3). Stock options are usually available at most large traded companies, bonus top ups are usually for directors+ or senior managers in FAANG or other large US companies that tend to have more grades than UK ones. Then there are ofc various retention bonuses and allowances, but these tend to be pretty much just a pay increase without the social contributions liabilities to the employer.
- YourDadVPN 4y ago
  You can contract outside IR-35 still, no? At least there were some advertised on LinkedIn last time I looked. If the contract is outside IR-35 then you can still claim expenses and pay corporate tax instead of (most) income tax.
  - OJFord 4y ago
    Does anyone advertise 'inside' IR35? I get tonnes too, but it'd be at my risk not the, err, employer's.
    - dogma1138 4y ago
      I haven’t seen any company that will take contractors outside of IR35 at least in London for more than a year now. The risk falls completely on the company these days. IR35 is a very nasty piece of legislation it’s difficult to even hire remote contractors outside of the UK with it without going through an established firm.
      - YourDadVPN 4y ago
        Shorter than a year suits me. My goal with contracting is to have time off between contracts to have more energy and time to bootstrap some business ideas. It is a shame this legislation passed, I understand the concern about hidden employees/tax dodging but it seems they overshot a bit.
        OJFord 4y ago
        I think GP meant not noticed any such listings in the last 12 months, not that they were advertising a post with a duration less than a year.
        YourDadVPN 4y ago
        I didn't think he was advertising, but I did misinterpret it as him saying only shorter term contracts were available outside IR35.

gadders 4y ago

I think it depends. Certainly as a banking PM what I earnt as a contractor (outside ir35) is more than I earn as a permanent employee, even with a bonus.