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This article is helping me validate my theory about someone's opinion about Facebook as a litmus test for how disconnected from regular people they are. Dave W

This article is helping me validate my theory about someone's opinion about Facebook as a litmus test for how disconnected from regular people they are. Dave Winer doesn't like Facebook (totally valid opinion). Dave Winer doesn't like how centralized Facebook has become for people and events (also a totally valid opinion). But according to Dave Winer, he can't even understand why someone would use Facebook: "So Scoble, you can go enjoy whatever it is you like about Facebook. I can’t imagine what that might be." This strikes me as someone with a complete lack of understanding for how people use the internet. I see this increasingly, as people not only harbor negative opinions about certain aspects of technology, but can't even comprehend a world in which users actually like using these services. I'm frightened that people ostensibly involved in the technology industry can possess a chasm this deep between their own model of how things should be and reality.

untog 15y ago
A great thought, there. I've had too many conversations with people who seem determined to not see value in Facebook. Suggesting that sending out a group e-mail is just as good as a Facebook event. Or that e-mailing out a link to your private photo web site is as good as uploading to Facebook. It isn't. And these are sensible people. They just seem utterly unwilling to even try out a web site they've already decided that they hate.
- pron 15y ago
  So what? Even dissent for the sake of dissent alone has some merit. Well, sometimes (particularly when the majority is so vast; we need even irrational dissenters to make us pause and reconsider our choices).
- beachgeek 15y ago
  Are these mostly tech people? I've noticed that folks that are too close to technology can't step away to see the product. EG in the early 90s a lot of folks couldn't see how using a Web browser was different from ftp since both transferred files over the network. EDIT: I should be honest and admit I was one of them. I was technically accurate just like Winer is technically accurate that a mailing list is not that different from a Facebook group.
- m0nastic 15y ago
  Yeah, I wasn't being facetious, I do actually find it concerning. I worry that as the internet continues to expand out into society, and more and more muggles make up the userbase; technology people will become more and more confused by what the internet is becoming. And I see that blind spot becoming dangerous as it relates to people's ideas for startups or technology improvements. We'll be designing the technology to power a world we don't understand, and that isn't good for us. And make no mistake, we absolutely won't be able to keep the internet in the shape we've become accustomed, no matter how much we might wish to.
  - pron 15y ago
    So you think the direction the world will take should be decided by the masses? This is a valid wish, but don't you think people should try to educate and persuade the masses? Point out something that they might have overlooked in their infinite wisdom :) ?
    - m0nastic 15y ago
      No, no. What I find troubling is our belief that the internet will progress in the way it "should" (based on our beliefs) rather than the way it absolutely will (based on a way of increasingly replacing higher friction interactions/services with ones of lower friction in an effort to make a crap-ton of whatever arbitrarily agreed upon currency we're all using at that point). I cringe at the thought of anything being decided by the masses, with their existing track record of music, movies, food, art, social mores, etc. I just think we need to realize that at some point the internet will outgrow the terrarium we've created for it, and at that point it won't be ours anymore. And in the grand scheme of things, that's probably a good thing. But if your entire belief system is predicated around the idea that you'll be able to keep it inside that terrarium forever, I'm going to be really hesitant to put much weight in your thoughts on technology.
      - pron 15y ago
        So a technologist should always go with the flow? Accept the inevitable? If Western society is in desperate need of anyone, it's not someone who can see where we're headed (we have plenty of those), but someone who's not willing to accept the inevitable (if it is indeed so). We need more rebels! Though I must confess my ignorance here as I have no clue whatsoever as to who this Winer person is, or who's Scoble for that matter, so I'm not quite sure who it is that I'm defending, but I guess I'm defending the principle.
unconed 15y ago
Generally, chasms between people's ideas of how things should be, and reality, are to be celebrated. It's where radical innovation comes from. Why does it frighten you? Average people are boring. They are generally fodder for mediocre businessmen to exploit, using tried and tested methods. Facebook is just the next big thing in a long line of bullshit firehoses. Only this time, it enlists your real friends, rather than the imaginary friends you aspire to have and relate to (i.e. celebrities). I can understand why people do it, but I can't grok why one would expose themselves to the concentrated brain poison that is TV and Internet advertising. Particularly North American media, with its saccharine hammyness and oppressively idyllic world view rammed through your throat. Every time I accidentally browse the internet without adblock or watch broadcast media, it genuinely offends me. I mute video ads and cover up the window so they don't even get a chance to put their idiotic jingle and brand name in my head. That puts me far away from Joe Average. That's okay, so do my work and interests.

untog 15y ago

A great thought, there. I've had too many conversations with people who seem determined to not see value in Facebook. Suggesting that sending out a group e-mail is just as good as a Facebook event. Or that e-mailing out a link to your private photo web site is as good as uploading to Facebook. It isn't. And these are sensible people. They just seem utterly unwilling to even try out a web site they've already decided that they hate.

pron 15y ago
So what? Even dissent for the sake of dissent alone has some merit. Well, sometimes (particularly when the majority is so vast; we need even irrational dissenters to make us pause and reconsider our choices).
beachgeek 15y ago
Are these mostly tech people? I've noticed that folks that are too close to technology can't step away to see the product. EG in the early 90s a lot of folks couldn't see how using a Web browser was different from ftp since both transferred files over the network. EDIT: I should be honest and admit I was one of them. I was technically accurate just like Winer is technically accurate that a mailing list is not that different from a Facebook group.
m0nastic 15y ago
Yeah, I wasn't being facetious, I do actually find it concerning. I worry that as the internet continues to expand out into society, and more and more muggles make up the userbase; technology people will become more and more confused by what the internet is becoming. And I see that blind spot becoming dangerous as it relates to people's ideas for startups or technology improvements. We'll be designing the technology to power a world we don't understand, and that isn't good for us. And make no mistake, we absolutely won't be able to keep the internet in the shape we've become accustomed, no matter how much we might wish to.
- pron 15y ago
  So you think the direction the world will take should be decided by the masses? This is a valid wish, but don't you think people should try to educate and persuade the masses? Point out something that they might have overlooked in their infinite wisdom :) ?
  - m0nastic 15y ago
    No, no. What I find troubling is our belief that the internet will progress in the way it "should" (based on our beliefs) rather than the way it absolutely will (based on a way of increasingly replacing higher friction interactions/services with ones of lower friction in an effort to make a crap-ton of whatever arbitrarily agreed upon currency we're all using at that point). I cringe at the thought of anything being decided by the masses, with their existing track record of music, movies, food, art, social mores, etc. I just think we need to realize that at some point the internet will outgrow the terrarium we've created for it, and at that point it won't be ours anymore. And in the grand scheme of things, that's probably a good thing. But if your entire belief system is predicated around the idea that you'll be able to keep it inside that terrarium forever, I'm going to be really hesitant to put much weight in your thoughts on technology.
    - pron 15y ago
      So a technologist should always go with the flow? Accept the inevitable? If Western society is in desperate need of anyone, it's not someone who can see where we're headed (we have plenty of those), but someone who's not willing to accept the inevitable (if it is indeed so). We need more rebels! Though I must confess my ignorance here as I have no clue whatsoever as to who this Winer person is, or who's Scoble for that matter, so I'm not quite sure who it is that I'm defending, but I guess I'm defending the principle.

unconed 15y ago

Generally, chasms between people's ideas of how things should be, and reality, are to be celebrated. It's where radical innovation comes from. Why does it frighten you? Average people are boring. They are generally fodder for mediocre businessmen to exploit, using tried and tested methods. Facebook is just the next big thing in a long line of bullshit firehoses. Only this time, it enlists your real friends, rather than the imaginary friends you aspire to have and relate to (i.e. celebrities). I can understand why people do it, but I can't grok why one would expose themselves to the concentrated brain poison that is TV and Internet advertising. Particularly North American media, with its saccharine hammyness and oppressively idyllic world view rammed through your throat. Every time I accidentally browse the internet without adblock or watch broadcast media, it genuinely offends me. I mute video ads and cover up the window so they don't even get a chance to put their idiotic jingle and brand name in my head. That puts me far away from Joe Average. That's okay, so do my work and interests.