6 ms·

I came here to say the same. In the UK you can't be made redundant if there is other work you could do at the company. Also in the UK contractors are paid a l

I came here to say the same. In the UK you can't be made redundant if there is other work you could do at the company. Also in the UK contractors are paid a lot more than full time staff!

OJFord 4y ago
Are you sure about that? My understanding was that the role is made redundant, not the person; that you can't hire someone else to do what a made-redundant person was just doing (of course it pretty much happens, but on paper/in theory it needs to be different). I don't really see how it makes sense for both to be true. And in your scenario, wouldn't voluntary redundancy get really weird? 'Denied - because you're qualified for a job in a different department. So keep doing your current one or resign.'
- jimnotgym 4y ago
  When a role is made redundant (in the UK) an employer has a series of steps they have to make. One of which is, if there is another role the employee could do then they have to be offered it. They can refuse of course. In your voluntary redundancy scenario the employee is waving their rights...voluntarily.
  - OJFord 4y ago
    Have to be offered it, or just have to be considered for it? As in, if there's a better qualified person available at the same price (or for that matter you're making two roles redundant and either of those people could do this one other role you have open, but you don't need both) do you really have to give it to the otherwise redundant person?
blibble 4y ago
> Also in the UK contractors are paid a lot more than full time staff! low level staff maybe the big earners in UK finance are employees contractors don't get a bonus
- OJFord 4y ago
  Certainly industry dependent. OP is about 'big tech' though, not finance (proper fintech aside I suppose). I think 'contractors are paid more' generally (and in fairness somewhat necessarily) ignores that it's to compensate for other employee benefits. But it's ultimately a kind of pointness/trivial truth - 'the value of holiday and sick leave and job security and life assurance and pension contributions and [...] is non-zero!' - yes, of course it would be.
  - dogma1138 4y ago
    It’s also true in general tech once you get to director or senior manager grade your short and long term incentive plans can be 50% of your BP and your BP isn’t going to be too shabby either. Contractors do get paid more but they don’t earn more at least not anymore after IR35 since they have a tax rate that is over 50% as they are also liable for the 15.5% employer national insurance contributions now. Overall contractors are far cheaper in the UK even at day rates of over £1000 and replacing people that earn high 5 to low six figures. They aren’t paid any bonus, there is no pension contribution there are no benefits and there is no liability for redundancy.
    - jimnotgym 4y ago
      All good points but it really does depend on the industry and the level. I have seen mid level jobs where the contractor is paid twice what the full time staff are, no bonus on either side. Your point about long term incentives is very dependent on company. I wish I had a scheme like that!
      - dogma1138 4y ago
        Long term incentives are pretty much stock options plus a bonus “top up” where X% of your bonus for the current year is paid to you again after Y years (usually 2 or 3). Stock options are usually available at most large traded companies, bonus top ups are usually for directors+ or senior managers in FAANG or other large US companies that tend to have more grades than UK ones. Then there are ofc various retention bonuses and allowances, but these tend to be pretty much just a pay increase without the social contributions liabilities to the employer.

I came here to say the same. In the UK you can't be made redundant if there is other work you could do at the company. Also in the UK contractors are paid a lot more than full time staff!

OJFord 4y ago

Are you sure about that? My understanding was that the role is made redundant, not the person; that you can't hire someone else to do what a made-redundant person was just doing (of course it pretty much happens, but on paper/in theory it needs to be different). I don't really see how it makes sense for both to be true. And in your scenario, wouldn't voluntary redundancy get really weird? 'Denied - because you're qualified for a job in a different department. So keep doing your current one or resign.'

jimnotgym 4y ago
When a role is made redundant (in the UK) an employer has a series of steps they have to make. One of which is, if there is another role the employee could do then they have to be offered it. They can refuse of course. In your voluntary redundancy scenario the employee is waving their rights...voluntarily.
- OJFord 4y ago
  Have to be offered it, or just have to be considered for it? As in, if there's a better qualified person available at the same price (or for that matter you're making two roles redundant and either of those people could do this one other role you have open, but you don't need both) do you really have to give it to the otherwise redundant person?

blibble 4y ago

> Also in the UK contractors are paid a lot more than full time staff! low level staff maybe the big earners in UK finance are employees contractors don't get a bonus

OJFord 4y ago
Certainly industry dependent. OP is about 'big tech' though, not finance (proper fintech aside I suppose). I think 'contractors are paid more' generally (and in fairness somewhat necessarily) ignores that it's to compensate for other employee benefits. But it's ultimately a kind of pointness/trivial truth - 'the value of holiday and sick leave and job security and life assurance and pension contributions and [...] is non-zero!' - yes, of course it would be.
- dogma1138 4y ago
  It’s also true in general tech once you get to director or senior manager grade your short and long term incentive plans can be 50% of your BP and your BP isn’t going to be too shabby either. Contractors do get paid more but they don’t earn more at least not anymore after IR35 since they have a tax rate that is over 50% as they are also liable for the 15.5% employer national insurance contributions now. Overall contractors are far cheaper in the UK even at day rates of over £1000 and replacing people that earn high 5 to low six figures. They aren’t paid any bonus, there is no pension contribution there are no benefits and there is no liability for redundancy.
  - jimnotgym 4y ago
    All good points but it really does depend on the industry and the level. I have seen mid level jobs where the contractor is paid twice what the full time staff are, no bonus on either side. Your point about long term incentives is very dependent on company. I wish I had a scheme like that!
    - dogma1138 4y ago
      Long term incentives are pretty much stock options plus a bonus “top up” where X% of your bonus for the current year is paid to you again after Y years (usually 2 or 3). Stock options are usually available at most large traded companies, bonus top ups are usually for directors+ or senior managers in FAANG or other large US companies that tend to have more grades than UK ones. Then there are ofc various retention bonuses and allowances, but these tend to be pretty much just a pay increase without the social contributions liabilities to the employer.