4 ms·

Check your facts. As much as I am a firm European democrat, you might wanna see what Chinese “state driven capitalist communism” has done between 1975 and today

Check your facts. As much as I am a firm European democrat, you might wanna see what Chinese “state driven capitalist communism” has done between 1975 and today. Again, if the measure is number of people lifted out of poverty, China wins hands down. Now, as much as we can’t consider China’s success without considering the lack of freedoms inscribed within the communist social pact, we can’t take just the good of American capitalism by only using gdp or trade volume as an indicator, because - again - inequality and lack of basic human needs and life safety wouldn’t be included. Reference: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/l...

DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago
Check your perspective. Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, Korea all industrialized faster and have a higher standard of living than China. All did it in the 1980s - 40 years ago. All did it without oppressive communism.
- DaedPsyker 4y ago
  While it might not have been communist, Korea certainly was oppressive when it built the chaebols which did involve a fair bit of government management.
  - lmz 4y ago
    Also re: Taiwan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan)
- lostlogin 4y ago
  Hong Kong has made it to oppressive communism, so that’s going to be interesting to watch going forward (or backwards?).
  - DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago
    Yes for sure. From China, to free markets, back to China. I think we’re already seeing the effects on Hong Kong. No so great.
- ashwagary 4y ago
  >if the measure is number of people lifted out of poverty, China wins hands down. >Check your perspective. >All did it in the 1980s - 40 years ago. All did it without oppressive communism. Japan industrialized long before 1980 and all the countries listed have miniscule populations compared to China. The only country you can really attempt to compare to China's scale is India but good luck landing the same poverty alleviation conclusions.
  - DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago
    Good luck finding examples of successful communism.
colonCapitalDee 4y ago
An alternative take would be that China only saw prosperity after partially adopting Western economic values. Additionally, Chinese economic development and Western economic development occurred in vastly different contexts. China had access to Western imports to jump start their industrialization and access to the Western scientific and policy know-how needed to build an advanced economy. The West had to figure things out as they went along. This is obviously a broad generalization, I just want to make the point that China is definitely not a slam dunk counterexample
satvikpendem 4y ago
You're reinforcing my point. China grew so fast due to embracing market capitalism with Deng Xiaoping, whereas Mao before wanted Marxist-Leninist central planning, which predictably failed. There's nothing "capitalist communist" about it, they're not even communist at all since workers don't own the means of production. Now I'm not saying the American model is great either, but market capitalism is an incredible invention.

DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago

Check your perspective. Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, Korea all industrialized faster and have a higher standard of living than China. All did it in the 1980s - 40 years ago. All did it without oppressive communism.

DaedPsyker 4y ago
While it might not have been communist, Korea certainly was oppressive when it built the chaebols which did involve a fair bit of government management.
- lmz 4y ago
  Also re: Taiwan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan)
lostlogin 4y ago
Hong Kong has made it to oppressive communism, so that’s going to be interesting to watch going forward (or backwards?).
- DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago
  Yes for sure. From China, to free markets, back to China. I think we’re already seeing the effects on Hong Kong. No so great.
ashwagary 4y ago
>if the measure is number of people lifted out of poverty, China wins hands down. >Check your perspective. >All did it in the 1980s - 40 years ago. All did it without oppressive communism. Japan industrialized long before 1980 and all the countries listed have miniscule populations compared to China. The only country you can really attempt to compare to China's scale is India but good luck landing the same poverty alleviation conclusions.
- DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago
  Good luck finding examples of successful communism.

colonCapitalDee 4y ago

An alternative take would be that China only saw prosperity after partially adopting Western economic values. Additionally, Chinese economic development and Western economic development occurred in vastly different contexts. China had access to Western imports to jump start their industrialization and access to the Western scientific and policy know-how needed to build an advanced economy. The West had to figure things out as they went along. This is obviously a broad generalization, I just want to make the point that China is definitely not a slam dunk counterexample

satvikpendem 4y ago

You're reinforcing my point. China grew so fast due to embracing market capitalism with Deng Xiaoping, whereas Mao before wanted Marxist-Leninist central planning, which predictably failed. There's nothing "capitalist communist" about it, they're not even communist at all since workers don't own the means of production. Now I'm not saying the American model is great either, but market capitalism is an incredible invention.