5 ms·

> The average French person has a life expectancy of 82. In Mississippi it’s 74.9 Like 90% of these "gotchas" for southern states (including lifespan compariso

by wyager 4y ago

> The average French person has a life expectancy of 82. In Mississippi it’s 74.9 Like 90% of these "gotchas" for southern states (including lifespan comparisons) end up decreasing or disappearing entirely when you condition on racial demographics. Not to say that invalidates the problem; just that comparing Mississippi to France doesn't make sense at all from a demographic standpoint.

hotpotamus 4y ago
Why does race need to be brought into it?
- WBrentWilliams 4y ago
  In the US, race is shorthand for class. In the US, class is not supposed to be noticed. Race is difficult (and insulting) to ignore. See also: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520261303/being-black-living-in-the-red https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520261303/being-black-livin...
  - wyager 4y ago
    Many of these conditioning effects persist even when controlling for wealth. Evidently there are other factors at play. Perhaps dietary differences, differences in medical requirements, etc.
    - WBrentWilliams 4y ago
      A few confounding factors. Cross-checking and citation left and an exercise to the reader: Immigrants that get through the (metaphorical and literal) gauntlets to get into the US skew longevity via a Darwinian reading. Staying to any traditional diet, working with what is in season, has health impacts. Immigrants form communities out of necessity. Strong communities lead to longer lifespans and has a decrease on childhood deaths. None of these confounding factors corrects for the race-as-class indicator. They simply have a mathematical effect of smearing the statistics. There is a difference between wealth and class. Class implies wealth, not the other way around. Hence why many die in hospital, despite having wealth, due to their race implying class. This shorthand leads to many outcomes, including calibration of equipment problems that are masked by the race-implies-class effects.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kwhitefoot 4y ago
  Sometimes because if you add 'race' to the data then clusters appear that align with that extra data. Of course it doesn't mean that 'race' is a causal factor, it can be that it correlates with some other data that is not included such as poverty.
  - wyager 4y ago
    For many outcomes (including medical outcomes) the differences do not go away when conditioning on wealth/income, so if there's a separate "root" causal factor, we have not yet found it.
    - Quarrel 4y ago
      In most we have found it and it is slavery.
      - telotortium 4y ago
        It's too bad we don't in the US break down Black population statistics into those who are descendants of slaves vs. more recent immigrants - the differences in life outcomes would probably be significant, even at the same income level.
- wyager 4y ago
  Because evidently it's a significant factor in the problem under consideration. It doesn't "need" to be brought into it unless you actually want to solve the problem.
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    What does it suggest that we should do about the problem then?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jabradoodle 4y ago
I don't think this is the defense you think it is, that minorities could live in such conditions they skew the statistics of the population is not a rebuttal.

by wyager 4y ago

hotpotamus 4y ago

Why does race need to be brought into it?

WBrentWilliams 4y ago
In the US, race is shorthand for class. In the US, class is not supposed to be noticed. Race is difficult (and insulting) to ignore. See also: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520261303/being-black-living-in-the-red https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520261303/being-black-livin...
- wyager 4y ago
  Many of these conditioning effects persist even when controlling for wealth. Evidently there are other factors at play. Perhaps dietary differences, differences in medical requirements, etc.
  - WBrentWilliams 4y ago
    A few confounding factors. Cross-checking and citation left and an exercise to the reader: Immigrants that get through the (metaphorical and literal) gauntlets to get into the US skew longevity via a Darwinian reading. Staying to any traditional diet, working with what is in season, has health impacts. Immigrants form communities out of necessity. Strong communities lead to longer lifespans and has a decrease on childhood deaths. None of these confounding factors corrects for the race-as-class indicator. They simply have a mathematical effect of smearing the statistics. There is a difference between wealth and class. Class implies wealth, not the other way around. Hence why many die in hospital, despite having wealth, due to their race implying class. This shorthand leads to many outcomes, including calibration of equipment problems that are masked by the race-implies-class effects.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kwhitefoot 4y ago
Sometimes because if you add 'race' to the data then clusters appear that align with that extra data. Of course it doesn't mean that 'race' is a causal factor, it can be that it correlates with some other data that is not included such as poverty.
- wyager 4y ago
  For many outcomes (including medical outcomes) the differences do not go away when conditioning on wealth/income, so if there's a separate "root" causal factor, we have not yet found it.
  - Quarrel 4y ago
    In most we have found it and it is slavery.
    - telotortium 4y ago
      It's too bad we don't in the US break down Black population statistics into those who are descendants of slaves vs. more recent immigrants - the differences in life outcomes would probably be significant, even at the same income level.
wyager 4y ago
Because evidently it's a significant factor in the problem under consideration. It doesn't "need" to be brought into it unless you actually want to solve the problem.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  What does it suggest that we should do about the problem then?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jabradoodle 4y ago

I don't think this is the defense you think it is, that minorities could live in such conditions they skew the statistics of the population is not a rebuttal.