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lower life expectancy in US in general can be attributed to a more unhealthy diet and less walking, which is on the flip side due to US's economic success - aff

lower life expectancy in US in general can be attributed to a more unhealthy diet and less walking, which is on the flip side due to US's economic success - affordance for more food and richer food, as well as affordance for car as transportation. Another attribution is the larger amount of immigrants, which as a segment has lower income level and thus lower life expectancy

b1ue64 3y ago
> can be attributed to more unhealthy diet and less walking, which is on the flip side due to US's economic success - affordance for more food and richer food, as well as affordance for car as transportation. people in the US aren't driving because they can afford cars - they have to drive because they don't have any other viable options due to the way american cities are designed
- marianatom 3y ago
  There are walkable US cities, and one can move to NY, Chicago, Boston, Seattle or its outskirts. However, people choose to stay in the suburbs because they can afford it.
  - tormeh 3y ago
    Isn't it the other way around? People have to stay in the suburbs because they can't afford to move to NYC?
    - DangitBobby 3y ago
      Yes. I live in the suburbs in the outskirts of a major city. I might consider more seriously the trade-offs of actually living in the city if I could justify the cost of living increase.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - HDThoreaun 3y ago
      not in chicago
  - bcrosby95 3y ago
    Chicago is the only close to affordable walkable city. As in, it's about the price of living in a suburb of LA. Which still isn't that affordable.
bryanrasmussen 3y ago
>affordance for more food and richer food yeah, the U.S eats richer food than the French.
- marianatom 3y ago
  More available produce year round. Cheaper imported food from around the world due to dollar's strength. More diverse cuisines in big cities, with a lot better Asian cuisines (sushi!) in general than France, due to large immigrations.
  - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
    The definition of richness in food is generally heavy in natural fats in proteins, high in butter and cream of a high quality. American butter and cream is ludicrously bad. There is just enough taste to it to make the stuff inedible. Sushi is not a rich food. Sauces with a lot of butter and fats in them are 'rich', pastries can be rich, depending mainly on the fattiness of the cream and butter. on edit: French cuisine is generally thought of as one of the richest in the world, hence my use of them as an example.
    - indecisive_user 3y ago
      In this case, the parent comment used "richness" as a synonym for being diverse and high quality.
      - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
        OK sort of like if I used the word distributed in a technical discussion to mean a lot of people in different countries are using our application. on edit: just seems a weird word to use when that has a precise meaning for food, if they had said a richer selection of food I would understand. But as the discussion was about what makes Americans unhealthy with shorter lifespans, and the unhealthiness of Americans is often synonymous with being overweight, saying it's because Americans eat rich food just doesn't seem to make any sense if what they mean is Americans have a wide selection of food to choose from.
camillomiller 3y ago
“Richer” food? UberLOL! By what standard exactly is pathological caloric surplus funded by big food considered “richer”?
- marianatom 3y ago
  technically a higher caloric diet is considered "richer" :)
iudqnolq 3y ago
Actually if US immigrants were their own country they'd have the best life expectancy in the world. They're holding up our stats, not pulling them down. > In fact, the researchers say, Americans’ life expectancy would steeply decline if it weren’t for immigrants and their children. Under that scenario, U.S. life expectancy in 2017 would have reverted to levels last seen in 2003 — 74.4 years for men and 79.5 years for women — more closely resembling the average lifespans of Tunisia and Ecuador. (data is pre-covid) https://gero.usc.edu/2021/09/30/immigration-boosts-u-s-life-expectancy-according-to-usc-princeton-study/ https://gero.usc.edu/2021/09/30/immigration-boosts-u-s-life-...
- Animats 3y ago
  > Actually if US immigrants were their own country they'd have the best life expectancy in the world. They're holding up our stats, not pulling them down. Of course. The sick, the halt, and the lame never made the trip. The kids who survive the trip through the Darien Gap will do fine.[1] [1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/13/americas/darien-gap-us-panama-colombia-intl-latam/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/13/americas/darien-gap-us-panama...
neffy 3y ago
You might want to think that, but unfortunately foreign born Americans (immigrants) actually have significantly longer life expectancies than American born do. Part of the reason for that is the much higher death rate in infants in the US, but it is still a very hard thing to explain away. I will also say as somebody who has lived in the US, US food is high calorie, but it is not better on any dimension, than what I can buy in any European street market. Possibly foreign born Americans stick with their original diets more.. who knows. But ops point about trading quality of life for meaningless economic statistics is spot on.
- randomdata 3y ago
  Isn't simply explained by the fact that immigration processes generally select for the fittest individuals? If you are not operating well it is going to be difficult to find the capacity to start the immigration process, and if you do make it that far you are likely to find out that the destination country doesn't want you. The same kind of phenomenon is seen in college graduates who love longer than non-graduates. There is no reason to think that attaining a college degree somehow cures what ails you. Rather, those who are not in tip top health don't have the capacity to make it all the way to graduation. It is even likely why we see those with more money living longer. While it is often thought they live longer because they are more able to care for themselves, at the same time if you are not in perfect health it is much harder to make money. The same capacity determines qualities like what kind of job you can focus your attention on, and even something as simple as a few extra unpaid sick days each year can greatly reduce your net wealth potential over time.
  - neffy 3y ago
    Not really. We also have to put this in the context of US life expectancy being significantly lower than comparable European countries. Britain for example has also had a very high immigration rate for a couple of centuries now, but no comparable difference is seen there. In the US money (and as proxy college education) is a gateway to a lot of things that influence health outcome, notably access to health treatment. So Occam's razor would suggest that is the simplest explanation - Europe has national health programs that provide access to good quality medical treatment for all levels of society. The US simply doesn't. See the infant mortality statistics.
tormeh 3y ago
Most industrialized countries have abundant food and access to cars. That's not the issue.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  That's very different from choosing to live unhealthy lifestyles.
twelve40 3y ago
> the larger amount of immigrants France has 10.3 percent of foreign-born population, the US has 13.6 percent. Even if we assume you didn't make up the "lower life expectancy" part, which by some comments seems like it is incorrect, the 3% difference in immigrants seems like a rounding error.

b1ue64 3y ago

> can be attributed to more unhealthy diet and less walking, which is on the flip side due to US's economic success - affordance for more food and richer food, as well as affordance for car as transportation. people in the US aren't driving because they can afford cars - they have to drive because they don't have any other viable options due to the way american cities are designed

marianatom 3y ago
There are walkable US cities, and one can move to NY, Chicago, Boston, Seattle or its outskirts. However, people choose to stay in the suburbs because they can afford it.
- tormeh 3y ago
  Isn't it the other way around? People have to stay in the suburbs because they can't afford to move to NYC?
  - DangitBobby 3y ago
    Yes. I live in the suburbs in the outskirts of a major city. I might consider more seriously the trade-offs of actually living in the city if I could justify the cost of living increase.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    not in chicago
- bcrosby95 3y ago
  Chicago is the only close to affordable walkable city. As in, it's about the price of living in a suburb of LA. Which still isn't that affordable.

bryanrasmussen 3y ago

>affordance for more food and richer food yeah, the U.S eats richer food than the French.

marianatom 3y ago
More available produce year round. Cheaper imported food from around the world due to dollar's strength. More diverse cuisines in big cities, with a lot better Asian cuisines (sushi!) in general than France, due to large immigrations.
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  The definition of richness in food is generally heavy in natural fats in proteins, high in butter and cream of a high quality. American butter and cream is ludicrously bad. There is just enough taste to it to make the stuff inedible. Sushi is not a rich food. Sauces with a lot of butter and fats in them are 'rich', pastries can be rich, depending mainly on the fattiness of the cream and butter. on edit: French cuisine is generally thought of as one of the richest in the world, hence my use of them as an example.
  - indecisive_user 3y ago
    In this case, the parent comment used "richness" as a synonym for being diverse and high quality.
    - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
      OK sort of like if I used the word distributed in a technical discussion to mean a lot of people in different countries are using our application. on edit: just seems a weird word to use when that has a precise meaning for food, if they had said a richer selection of food I would understand. But as the discussion was about what makes Americans unhealthy with shorter lifespans, and the unhealthiness of Americans is often synonymous with being overweight, saying it's because Americans eat rich food just doesn't seem to make any sense if what they mean is Americans have a wide selection of food to choose from.

camillomiller 3y ago

“Richer” food? UberLOL! By what standard exactly is pathological caloric surplus funded by big food considered “richer”?

marianatom 3y ago
technically a higher caloric diet is considered "richer" :)

iudqnolq 3y ago

Actually if US immigrants were their own country they'd have the best life expectancy in the world. They're holding up our stats, not pulling them down. > In fact, the researchers say, Americans’ life expectancy would steeply decline if it weren’t for immigrants and their children. Under that scenario, U.S. life expectancy in 2017 would have reverted to levels last seen in 2003 — 74.4 years for men and 79.5 years for women — more closely resembling the average lifespans of Tunisia and Ecuador. (data is pre-covid) https://gero.usc.edu/2021/09/30/immigration-boosts-u-s-life-expectancy-according-to-usc-princeton-study/ https://gero.usc.edu/2021/09/30/immigration-boosts-u-s-life-...

Animats 3y ago
> Actually if US immigrants were their own country they'd have the best life expectancy in the world. They're holding up our stats, not pulling them down. Of course. The sick, the halt, and the lame never made the trip. The kids who survive the trip through the Darien Gap will do fine.[1] [1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/13/americas/darien-gap-us-panama-colombia-intl-latam/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/13/americas/darien-gap-us-panama...

neffy 3y ago

You might want to think that, but unfortunately foreign born Americans (immigrants) actually have significantly longer life expectancies than American born do. Part of the reason for that is the much higher death rate in infants in the US, but it is still a very hard thing to explain away. I will also say as somebody who has lived in the US, US food is high calorie, but it is not better on any dimension, than what I can buy in any European street market. Possibly foreign born Americans stick with their original diets more.. who knows. But ops point about trading quality of life for meaningless economic statistics is spot on.

randomdata 3y ago
Isn't simply explained by the fact that immigration processes generally select for the fittest individuals? If you are not operating well it is going to be difficult to find the capacity to start the immigration process, and if you do make it that far you are likely to find out that the destination country doesn't want you. The same kind of phenomenon is seen in college graduates who love longer than non-graduates. There is no reason to think that attaining a college degree somehow cures what ails you. Rather, those who are not in tip top health don't have the capacity to make it all the way to graduation. It is even likely why we see those with more money living longer. While it is often thought they live longer because they are more able to care for themselves, at the same time if you are not in perfect health it is much harder to make money. The same capacity determines qualities like what kind of job you can focus your attention on, and even something as simple as a few extra unpaid sick days each year can greatly reduce your net wealth potential over time.
- neffy 3y ago
  Not really. We also have to put this in the context of US life expectancy being significantly lower than comparable European countries. Britain for example has also had a very high immigration rate for a couple of centuries now, but no comparable difference is seen there. In the US money (and as proxy college education) is a gateway to a lot of things that influence health outcome, notably access to health treatment. So Occam's razor would suggest that is the simplest explanation - Europe has national health programs that provide access to good quality medical treatment for all levels of society. The US simply doesn't. See the infant mortality statistics.

tormeh 3y ago

Most industrialized countries have abundant food and access to cars. That's not the issue.

HDThoreaun 3y ago
That's very different from choosing to live unhealthy lifestyles.

twelve40 3y ago

> the larger amount of immigrants France has 10.3 percent of foreign-born population, the US has 13.6 percent. Even if we assume you didn't make up the "lower life expectancy" part, which by some comments seems like it is incorrect, the 3% difference in immigrants seems like a rounding error.