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They can both be useful, maybe? And I'd go farther down one of your lines and say I'm way more worried when kids don't respect each other than I am when they d

by taeric 4y ago

They can both be useful, maybe? And I'd go farther down one of your lines and say I'm way more worried when kids don't respect each other than I am when they don't show respect to older people. Oddly, this often plays out in many situations where the adults also don't respect each other in the same place. Cussing is an odd one. Don't go out of your way for disrespectful language, sure. But also don't go out of your way to be offended by the way people say things. Is like my family getting upset when they see someone with blue hair. Just, why is that a concern and somehow disrespect from them? Further complicating this, I grew up where we viewed Bill Cosby as the epitome of respect, and Eddie Murphy as not. And yet here we are, knowing what we know today. (I also cussed like a sailor, to the point that all of my friends would actually chide me on it, yet I was a very respectful person by all other measures.) The assignments and such is even less stable. There is no evidence that doing homework helps. There is evidence that people that can easily do homework do well. Again, maybe. Often that is evidence that people with help do well. Those without help, do not. (And I don't mean "parents that did the homework." It could be as simple as "has a stable homelife.") For the majority of these things, though, it is a tough environment for everyone involved. And all too often worrying about it at the scenes we are talking about do very little to help or improve situations. There are as many scenes where the kids don't show respect because they weren't given respect. It is reciprocal. So, to specifically go about the what I mean makes it dangerous. It is years and years of seeing folks say things like "if only ___ would respect authority, they wouldn't be in this situation." It can feel very true. But it is often ignoring as much as it is looking at.

lumb63 4y ago
Thanks for the in depth response. I agree with you that often when kids do not respect each other, they’re in an environment where they are not respected or see others not respecting each other. Often this is from a bad home life, in my experience. There is little that the school system can do to help that. Though it is worth mentioning that all teachers and staff in a school should show exemplary behavior; it is not realistic to expect respect without showing it. I should be more specific when I say cussing. I don’t care much about students swearing. I was like you in that I was “respectful” by most measures, but by the time I was a teenager, I was swearing every sentence. I thought it was cool. That’s mostly harmless, IMO. However, I feel for my sister who reports students calling her a “fucking bitch”, “cunt”, etc., when she is in class and asks them to, e.g., not use their phones. I’m not there to offer judgment on how respectful she is or is not to students, but I assume that is an unwarranted escalation on the part of the students. As one sibling comment pointed out, and you pointed out, there are problems that can be solved that may lead to more respect shown by both students and teachers. Education has not kept up with changes in society, and I’m sure all parties involved feel that. For instance, phones weren’t an issue in class when I was in school, because phones didn’t exist! If they did, they had 10 digits, a #, and a * button on them. Also, education practices have failed to produce results for students. I’m sure students feel disrespected that they are having their time wasted by teachers doing assignments that don’t benefit them. Both of the above are problems that can be identified and solved without pointing out any blame. However, maybe that’s the reason they aren’t being solved; some people are more interested in pointing a finger than solving problems.
- taeric 4y ago
  I suspect women have taken verbal abuse for a long time. Is a problem, but not new to current youth. Would love if they find a solution, though. Hard to argue phones aren't changing things. I doubt they are as instrumental as often pushed. Remember when it was common for grade schoolers to smoke? Chewing tobacco was also huge. My gut is things are more widely visible today. And even then, I'm not clear on what has changed.
- candiodari 4y ago
  Perhaps these are underlying reasons, but the fact is that >90% of kids want to behave. And that >90% of parents want their kids to behave. But teachers just aren't on the side of parents. Reactions of teachers to my kids were always somewhere between disappointing and infuriating. Also, as a rule, teachers do not know their subject matter these days. Whilst I do remember their knowledge being less than perfect in the past, it was not like this. I understand teacher pay is a factor, but I refuse to believe these people have even the capability of educating kids. Luckily good teaching materials are more accessible than ever as well, it's just ... all of them are outside of school.

by taeric 4y ago

lumb63 4y ago

Thanks for the in depth response. I agree with you that often when kids do not respect each other, they’re in an environment where they are not respected or see others not respecting each other. Often this is from a bad home life, in my experience. There is little that the school system can do to help that. Though it is worth mentioning that all teachers and staff in a school should show exemplary behavior; it is not realistic to expect respect without showing it. I should be more specific when I say cussing. I don’t care much about students swearing. I was like you in that I was “respectful” by most measures, but by the time I was a teenager, I was swearing every sentence. I thought it was cool. That’s mostly harmless, IMO. However, I feel for my sister who reports students calling her a “fucking bitch”, “cunt”, etc., when she is in class and asks them to, e.g., not use their phones. I’m not there to offer judgment on how respectful she is or is not to students, but I assume that is an unwarranted escalation on the part of the students. As one sibling comment pointed out, and you pointed out, there are problems that can be solved that may lead to more respect shown by both students and teachers. Education has not kept up with changes in society, and I’m sure all parties involved feel that. For instance, phones weren’t an issue in class when I was in school, because phones didn’t exist! If they did, they had 10 digits, a #, and a * button on them. Also, education practices have failed to produce results for students. I’m sure students feel disrespected that they are having their time wasted by teachers doing assignments that don’t benefit them. Both of the above are problems that can be identified and solved without pointing out any blame. However, maybe that’s the reason they aren’t being solved; some people are more interested in pointing a finger than solving problems.

taeric 4y ago
I suspect women have taken verbal abuse for a long time. Is a problem, but not new to current youth. Would love if they find a solution, though. Hard to argue phones aren't changing things. I doubt they are as instrumental as often pushed. Remember when it was common for grade schoolers to smoke? Chewing tobacco was also huge. My gut is things are more widely visible today. And even then, I'm not clear on what has changed.
candiodari 4y ago
Perhaps these are underlying reasons, but the fact is that >90% of kids want to behave. And that >90% of parents want their kids to behave. But teachers just aren't on the side of parents. Reactions of teachers to my kids were always somewhere between disappointing and infuriating. Also, as a rule, teachers do not know their subject matter these days. Whilst I do remember their knowledge being less than perfect in the past, it was not like this. I understand teacher pay is a factor, but I refuse to believe these people have even the capability of educating kids. Luckily good teaching materials are more accessible than ever as well, it's just ... all of them are outside of school.