5 ms·

I have tried out a few readers, none I tried so far support it in satisfying quality comparable to what katex would deliver. Maybe koreader is an exception, but

I have tried out a few readers, none I tried so far support it in satisfying quality comparable to what katex would deliver. Maybe koreader is an exception, but I doubt it. Will give it a try at some point.

simplotek 4y ago
> (...) comparable to what katex would deliver. You're comparing real world working implementations based on mathml with your hopeful expectations of how you wish katex could work in an epub implementation. It's good to have hopes and dreams and a positive outlook, but your perceived solution does not exist. It's hardly relevant to present it as a better alternative.
- auggierose 4y ago
  I have no need for real-world implementations that do not work as well as I need them to work. KaTeX is proof that math can be displayed properly in a browser-like environment. Anything less will not do it, at least for me. That's why I have exclusively PDFs in my digital library, except for books that are just text, like fiction. No hopes and dreams needed, just use PDF. But making epub work properly for math is not a problem in principle, just make katex work in an epub reader, problem solved. And people who are satisfied with substandard solutions are actually part of the problem, not the solution.
  - Georgelemental 4y ago
    > just make katex work in an epub reader "Just write a full JavaScript and DOM implementation for your resource-constrained e-ink device"
    - auggierose 4y ago
      I think you need that already if you want a compliant epub reader. Javascript is part of the epub standard.
      - Georgelemental 4y ago
        According to the standard, it seems that basic MathML support is required for all conformant implementations (https://www.w3.org/publishing/epub32/epub-contentdocs.html#sec-xhtml-mathml-rs-conf https://www.w3.org/publishing/epub32/epub-contentdocs.html#s...), but scripting support is optional (https://www.w3.org/publishing/epub32/epub-contentdocs.html#sec-scripted-content-rs-reqs https://www.w3.org/publishing/epub32/epub-contentdocs.html#s...). Not that anyone actually follows the standard…
      - iudqnolq 4y ago
        And that's one reason why the majority of ebooks purchased by consumers aren't in epub format.[1] For the vast majority of fiction a format constrained to bold, italicize, paragraph break, chapter heading, and chapter break allows a far superior user experience. [1] https://magnoliamedianetwork.com/ebook-publishing-platforms/ https://magnoliamedianetwork.com/ebook-publishing-platforms/
        goosedragons 4y ago
        JavaScript isn't a necessary component of ePub readers. Besides a handful of apps like Adobe Digital Editions and Apple iBooks, most don't. Kobo doesn't in their eReaders. JavaScript is only used in ePubs for multimedia crap. Fiction ePubs don't bother either. Kindle books generally start their life as ePubs that Amazon then converts to their formats before they list them. They don't even let you publish in mobi anymore. Kindle's lack of MathML support actually makes the user experience worse for everyone. Publishers often make 1 ePub they submit to multiple stores so rather than make a MathML version and a shitty image version for Kindle they just make a shitty image version and now you have a math textbook that's larger than the PDF would have been AND the equation text isn't resizable defeating the whole point of a reflowable ebook.
        iudqnolq 4y ago
        > Kindle books generally start their life as ePubs that Amazon then converts to their formats before they list them. They don't even let you publish in mobi anymore. Morally speaking they start as Kindle ePubs that support a very very limited subset of the ePub standard.
    - auggierose 4y ago
      Also want to note that this is not a matter of resource constraints: The implementations of MathML for (desktop) browsers are just as shitty.
Georgelemental 4y ago
If you need it to be pixel-perfect it will probably disappoint, yes. It's good enough for the few times I have made use of it. (It's also open-source, so you can always contribute improvements)
- auggierose 4y ago
  Never understood that need to contribute to open-source. Why would I try to meddle with somebody else's messed up implementation? I have enough messes of my own to clean up!
  - hgsgm 4y ago
    Team work makes the dream work.
    - auggierose 4y ago
      Must be why Avenger movies are so popular.
    - simplotek 4y ago
      > Team work makes the dream work. Except there is no team, and people dream differently. More often than not, open source creates problems for developers. See Rust's Actix framework.

simplotek 4y ago

> (...) comparable to what katex would deliver. You're comparing real world working implementations based on mathml with your hopeful expectations of how you wish katex could work in an epub implementation. It's good to have hopes and dreams and a positive outlook, but your perceived solution does not exist. It's hardly relevant to present it as a better alternative.

auggierose 4y ago
I have no need for real-world implementations that do not work as well as I need them to work. KaTeX is proof that math can be displayed properly in a browser-like environment. Anything less will not do it, at least for me. That's why I have exclusively PDFs in my digital library, except for books that are just text, like fiction. No hopes and dreams needed, just use PDF. But making epub work properly for math is not a problem in principle, just make katex work in an epub reader, problem solved. And people who are satisfied with substandard solutions are actually part of the problem, not the solution.
- Georgelemental 4y ago
  > just make katex work in an epub reader "Just write a full JavaScript and DOM implementation for your resource-constrained e-ink device"
  - auggierose 4y ago
    I think you need that already if you want a compliant epub reader. Javascript is part of the epub standard.
    - Georgelemental 4y ago
      According to the standard, it seems that basic MathML support is required for all conformant implementations (https://www.w3.org/publishing/epub32/epub-contentdocs.html#sec-xhtml-mathml-rs-conf https://www.w3.org/publishing/epub32/epub-contentdocs.html#s...), but scripting support is optional (https://www.w3.org/publishing/epub32/epub-contentdocs.html#sec-scripted-content-rs-reqs https://www.w3.org/publishing/epub32/epub-contentdocs.html#s...). Not that anyone actually follows the standard…
    - iudqnolq 4y ago
      And that's one reason why the majority of ebooks purchased by consumers aren't in epub format.[1] For the vast majority of fiction a format constrained to bold, italicize, paragraph break, chapter heading, and chapter break allows a far superior user experience. [1] https://magnoliamedianetwork.com/ebook-publishing-platforms/ https://magnoliamedianetwork.com/ebook-publishing-platforms/
      - goosedragons 4y ago
        JavaScript isn't a necessary component of ePub readers. Besides a handful of apps like Adobe Digital Editions and Apple iBooks, most don't. Kobo doesn't in their eReaders. JavaScript is only used in ePubs for multimedia crap. Fiction ePubs don't bother either. Kindle books generally start their life as ePubs that Amazon then converts to their formats before they list them. They don't even let you publish in mobi anymore. Kindle's lack of MathML support actually makes the user experience worse for everyone. Publishers often make 1 ePub they submit to multiple stores so rather than make a MathML version and a shitty image version for Kindle they just make a shitty image version and now you have a math textbook that's larger than the PDF would have been AND the equation text isn't resizable defeating the whole point of a reflowable ebook.
        iudqnolq 4y ago
        > Kindle books generally start their life as ePubs that Amazon then converts to their formats before they list them. They don't even let you publish in mobi anymore. Morally speaking they start as Kindle ePubs that support a very very limited subset of the ePub standard.
  - auggierose 4y ago
    Also want to note that this is not a matter of resource constraints: The implementations of MathML for (desktop) browsers are just as shitty.

Georgelemental 4y ago

If you need it to be pixel-perfect it will probably disappoint, yes. It's good enough for the few times I have made use of it. (It's also open-source, so you can always contribute improvements)

auggierose 4y ago
Never understood that need to contribute to open-source. Why would I try to meddle with somebody else's messed up implementation? I have enough messes of my own to clean up!
- hgsgm 4y ago
  Team work makes the dream work.
  - auggierose 4y ago
    Must be why Avenger movies are so popular.
  - simplotek 4y ago
    > Team work makes the dream work. Except there is no team, and people dream differently. More often than not, open source creates problems for developers. See Rust's Actix framework.