4 ms·

I'm a little fearful of efficiency in government. I believe that, in most areas, government can never be as efficient as a free market. Making the government cl

by Darmani 18y ago

I'm a little fearful of efficiency in government. I believe that, in most areas, government can never be as efficient as a free market. Making the government closer to a free-market efficiency just makes it harder to get to a fully-free market and makes it a lot easier for the government to grow in other areas. Rothbard went into a little more detail on this in a lengthy criticism of Friedman: http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard43.html http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard43.html

curiousgeorge 18y ago
How do you get efficient outcomes in monopolistic markets without government involvement? Where substantively do you feel more efficient government is problematic?
- MikeCapone 18y ago
  Most monopolies are caused by government, though. Mostly through barriers to entry for competition..
  - unalone 18y ago
    Was Microsoft caused by government? I thought it was because Gates convinced businessmen that using his solution and standardizing it would be the most efficient for the workplace. And it took the government stepping in to decentralize things.
    - Darmani 18y ago
      Microsoft's monopoly in all areas is deteriorating due to the free market. For example, the browser market is now more of an oligopoly. Microsoft only maintains a majority market share because Firefox forced it to really put some work into IE 7. Monopolies do exist in free markets, but they tend to be unstable and relatively short-lived. Things like AT&T's 100-year monopoly definitely require some government intervention.
      - unalone 18y ago
        The question is, would Microsoft have broken up had it not been for Bill Gates being hauled in front of a federal commission and forced to break Microsoft into smaller divisions? Because the free market didn't split Microsoft, the federal government did. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft#Government_anti-trust_suits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft#Governme...
chubbard 18y ago
But, government isn't going anywhere. Wouldn't you rather have an efficient government over a non-efficient government given that Free Markets don't eliminate the need for government? As the latest crisis has taught us Free Markets can't solve everything, and sometimes the only answer is government intervention. Like it or not the free markets couldn't correct their mistakes. They tried before requesting government intervention. The only answer is to find the balance between free markets and government. Right now we're out of whack.
- corentin 18y ago
  The current crisis reminded us that it's still a bad idea for the government to distort prices on a so massive scale (through fake interest rates), because truth has to eventually emerge through the price system anyway, and corrections have to happen. Failure can happen in the free market (that's how progress is made, through trial and error). But when governments decide that failure should never happen ("too big to fail", etc.) they make the free market itself fail, which is much bigger problem.
  - anewaccountname 18y ago
    Financial companies take calculated risks for themselves to make profits. But they don't have to take into account the effect of any losses they may cause in the economy as a whole (or more precisely, they only have to consider their share of them). How do you propose to get out of this collective action problem without some form of government regulation?
    - corentin 18y ago
      There is this moral hazard precisely because the government ends up bailing out the irresponsible (following the "too big to fail" mantra). Instead, just let the financial companies (in fact, all companies, including GM) take full responsibility for what they do.
markessien 18y ago
Compare the government-efficiency fueled prosperity of Singapore or Malaysia to the more free market style economies of Vietnam, Phillipines or Indonesia.
- wenbert 18y ago
  You mentioned Philippines. I live here and indeed things are getting better for some people. Cebu - the island where I live is booming with IT stuff and Call Centers. And this is no thanks to the National Government. I can only speak for myself, but i think mostly this is done by the local government. So thanks to them. And by the way, if you are thinking of outsourcing, outsource here in Cebu. People get paid less here compared to Manila/Makati and they are just as talented. So you get more for your money :P For businesses, the market here is small. The island is small. So do your business in Singapore, Japan, US, etc. and let the people here do the work (with good pay of course heh) -- it's like the internet was made for Cebu

by Darmani 18y ago

curiousgeorge 18y ago

How do you get efficient outcomes in monopolistic markets without government involvement? Where substantively do you feel more efficient government is problematic?

MikeCapone 18y ago
Most monopolies are caused by government, though. Mostly through barriers to entry for competition..
- unalone 18y ago
  Was Microsoft caused by government? I thought it was because Gates convinced businessmen that using his solution and standardizing it would be the most efficient for the workplace. And it took the government stepping in to decentralize things.
  - Darmani 18y ago
    Microsoft's monopoly in all areas is deteriorating due to the free market. For example, the browser market is now more of an oligopoly. Microsoft only maintains a majority market share because Firefox forced it to really put some work into IE 7. Monopolies do exist in free markets, but they tend to be unstable and relatively short-lived. Things like AT&T's 100-year monopoly definitely require some government intervention.
    - unalone 18y ago
      The question is, would Microsoft have broken up had it not been for Bill Gates being hauled in front of a federal commission and forced to break Microsoft into smaller divisions? Because the free market didn't split Microsoft, the federal government did. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft#Government_anti-trust_suits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft#Governme...

chubbard 18y ago

But, government isn't going anywhere. Wouldn't you rather have an efficient government over a non-efficient government given that Free Markets don't eliminate the need for government? As the latest crisis has taught us Free Markets can't solve everything, and sometimes the only answer is government intervention. Like it or not the free markets couldn't correct their mistakes. They tried before requesting government intervention. The only answer is to find the balance between free markets and government. Right now we're out of whack.

corentin 18y ago
The current crisis reminded us that it's still a bad idea for the government to distort prices on a so massive scale (through fake interest rates), because truth has to eventually emerge through the price system anyway, and corrections have to happen. Failure can happen in the free market (that's how progress is made, through trial and error). But when governments decide that failure should never happen ("too big to fail", etc.) they make the free market itself fail, which is much bigger problem.
- anewaccountname 18y ago
  Financial companies take calculated risks for themselves to make profits. But they don't have to take into account the effect of any losses they may cause in the economy as a whole (or more precisely, they only have to consider their share of them). How do you propose to get out of this collective action problem without some form of government regulation?
  - corentin 18y ago
    There is this moral hazard precisely because the government ends up bailing out the irresponsible (following the "too big to fail" mantra). Instead, just let the financial companies (in fact, all companies, including GM) take full responsibility for what they do.

markessien 18y ago

Compare the government-efficiency fueled prosperity of Singapore or Malaysia to the more free market style economies of Vietnam, Phillipines or Indonesia.

wenbert 18y ago
You mentioned Philippines. I live here and indeed things are getting better for some people. Cebu - the island where I live is booming with IT stuff and Call Centers. And this is no thanks to the National Government. I can only speak for myself, but i think mostly this is done by the local government. So thanks to them. And by the way, if you are thinking of outsourcing, outsource here in Cebu. People get paid less here compared to Manila/Makati and they are just as talented. So you get more for your money :P For businesses, the market here is small. The island is small. So do your business in Singapore, Japan, US, etc. and let the people here do the work (with good pay of course heh) -- it's like the internet was made for Cebu