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The main obstacle to overcome is to decrease the consumption of energy :) it's tough because people don't really care about the environment as soon as they have

by forty 4y ago

The main obstacle to overcome is to decrease the consumption of energy :) it's tough because people don't really care about the environment as soon as they have to even slightly change any of their habits, and the situation would require that people significantly change their habits (so I'd say we are probably screwed)

pieix 4y ago
As you’ve identified, few people will opt into a lower quality of living in the name of the greater good. The solution is to find better power generation methods, rather than force people to accept a downgrade.
- forty 4y ago
  Well, it's not that much about acceptance, the downgrade is being forced on people right now (via drought, ocean rise, heat, fire, and other climatic events, and all this will also cause hunger, population move and wars), and it's a much worse downgrade than what people could do volontarily to mitigate the issue.
venk12 4y ago
To what degree is personal consumption driving the demand for energy? And to what degree are industrials, workplaces or collective activities we do as part of the society? In any case, what are the ways to reduce consumption of energy at an individual level and society as a whole? Are there any novel ideas that are yet to be explored?
- forty 4y ago
  For personal consumption, I'd assume a large part of the energy used directly come from home heating/cooling and transportation (cars). Solutions exist to improve both in many cases (insulation and public transportation/biking/walking).
kcplate 4y ago
>> Can the world just run on renewables like Greenpeace is claiming? > The main obstacle to overcome is to decrease the consumption of energy If we can’t produce enough power using renewables to meet current demand you cannot run the world on renewables. So “no”.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  We obviously could supply much more than current demand with renewables. After all, the world is constantly being hit by 100,000 TW of sunlight, and total world primary energy demand is 18 TW. If you are saying the currently installed renewables cannot meet current demand, why do you think additional capacity cannot be installed?
  - kcplate 4y ago
    The commenter suggested that the problem with renewables is convincing people to consume less. That is not a direct replacement. Can capacity be installed? Sure. Do we have the resources to use renewable energy immediately available to meet our current demand? No, it has to be mined, manufactured, and installed. Can we do that in a way that is economically feasible is the real question.
    - pfdietz 4y ago
      Of course if you look at what's immediately available, it doesn't do. How could it possibly? No one has wind and solar fields sitting around idle, just waiting to be turned on. New capacity would have to be built. That takes time (but much less time than nuclear). It takes resources, but the resources required are small compared to what industrial society as a whole consumes. And if you look at raw mass of material extracted from the ground, fossil fuels are the vast majority of mass extracted (ignoring ground water). In comparison, the metals and other materials needed for renewable sources are much less (orders of magnitude less) for a given amount of energy production.
      - forty 4y ago

by forty 4y ago

pieix 4y ago

As you’ve identified, few people will opt into a lower quality of living in the name of the greater good. The solution is to find better power generation methods, rather than force people to accept a downgrade.

forty 4y ago
Well, it's not that much about acceptance, the downgrade is being forced on people right now (via drought, ocean rise, heat, fire, and other climatic events, and all this will also cause hunger, population move and wars), and it's a much worse downgrade than what people could do volontarily to mitigate the issue.

venk12 4y ago

To what degree is personal consumption driving the demand for energy? And to what degree are industrials, workplaces or collective activities we do as part of the society? In any case, what are the ways to reduce consumption of energy at an individual level and society as a whole? Are there any novel ideas that are yet to be explored?

forty 4y ago
For personal consumption, I'd assume a large part of the energy used directly come from home heating/cooling and transportation (cars). Solutions exist to improve both in many cases (insulation and public transportation/biking/walking).

kcplate 4y ago

>> Can the world just run on renewables like Greenpeace is claiming? > The main obstacle to overcome is to decrease the consumption of energy If we can’t produce enough power using renewables to meet current demand you cannot run the world on renewables. So “no”.

pfdietz 4y ago
We obviously could supply much more than current demand with renewables. After all, the world is constantly being hit by 100,000 TW of sunlight, and total world primary energy demand is 18 TW. If you are saying the currently installed renewables cannot meet current demand, why do you think additional capacity cannot be installed?
- kcplate 4y ago
  The commenter suggested that the problem with renewables is convincing people to consume less. That is not a direct replacement. Can capacity be installed? Sure. Do we have the resources to use renewable energy immediately available to meet our current demand? No, it has to be mined, manufactured, and installed. Can we do that in a way that is economically feasible is the real question.
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    Of course if you look at what's immediately available, it doesn't do. How could it possibly? No one has wind and solar fields sitting around idle, just waiting to be turned on. New capacity would have to be built. That takes time (but much less time than nuclear). It takes resources, but the resources required are small compared to what industrial society as a whole consumes. And if you look at raw mass of material extracted from the ground, fossil fuels are the vast majority of mass extracted (ignoring ground water). In comparison, the metals and other materials needed for renewable sources are much less (orders of magnitude less) for a given amount of energy production.
    - forty 4y ago