12 ms·

I would be curious to compare to the 90s though. I remember when I was younger, I'd sometimes just go to the airport back when you could just walk out to the ga

I would be curious to compare to the 90s though. I remember when I was younger, I'd sometimes just go to the airport back when you could just walk out to the gates, grab a snack and then watch the planes take off and land. Obviously that's not a "normal" thing to have done, but in a world with lighter security, I remember airport food being around the same level as mall food court options, so it was an interesting option for getting out of the house. I'd be curious if there's some lower-security path towards making Airports more of a common space, not that there's any chance of it happening.

bobthepanda 4y ago
Changi in Singapore is very much a common space, because the security is at the gate.
- paulmooreparks 4y ago
  Not really. A boarding pass is required for airside access.
  - refurb 4y ago
    Exactly. Changi is no different than other airports - you can only access the ticketing and baggage arrival areas unless you have a boarding pass. It does have a massive mall attached to the public area though (Jewel).
    - JadedEngineer 4y ago
      Yes but security is done at each individual gate which makes a massive difference. And the staff is nice and polite. I don't remember ever queing for anything at Changi and I've used it so much. It's about the only airport I don't hate these days.
      - FabHK 4y ago
        Security at the individual gate is also done at Kuala Lumpur, Doha, and some others. I prefer the usual arrangement of a centralised security check. This stack exchange answer does a good job listing some of the advantages and disadvantages of security at the gate: https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/34818/why-is-security-screening-done-at-the-gate-in-some-airports https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/34818/why-is-secu...
        7952 4y ago
        I think some of the space saving benefits are overstated. Baggage claim takes up a surprisingly large amount of space and you still need customs.
      - refurb 4y ago
        Security isn't done at the individual gate in Terminal 4 (newest terminal). And actually security screening at the gate is a pain in the ass. Once you're screened you're stuck in a room with no bathrooms (you need to leave and get rescreened). And if your flight changes gates (happened to me), you have to get rescreened all over again. It is helpful in the sense that bottlenecks don't happen earlier on, but I'm not sure it's that great of an approach.
- hackernewds 4y ago
  Changi is a stunning example of how beautiful an airport experience can be. I fly through there + Singapore airlines every chance I get. Perhaps a benevolent "dictatorship" can be beneficial.
  - mrosett 4y ago
    “Benevolent” dictatorship
  - Kamq 4y ago
    A single dictator has never really been the problem. You can find dictators that do better than democracies throughout history (especially on long-term planning). It's the transition of power that's the problem. Like, a real bad problem. Like raze half your country and set you back 50-100 years problem.
    - mongol 4y ago
      What kind of dictator are you talking about? Roman-style, where it could be time limited, or the modern version, of which there are many terrible examples before power transition becomes an issue?
      - denton-scratch 4y ago
        > could be time limited Roman dictators weren't like modern autocrats. They were officials, appointed for a limited time (usually no more than 6 months) to address some specific emergency. They weren't crooks who staged coups. And it doesn't seem to have been a desirable appointment to hold; dictators often stood down before the time-limit.
        vanattab 4y ago
        I mean your technically correct that dictators were supposed to give up thier absolute power and indeed some did. But there is definitely a reason the term has adopted it current meaning.
      - 4y ago
efitz 4y ago
In the early 1990s I was very late for a flight. My friend dropped me off at the departure area; I got out of the car 5 minutes before departure time. I ran through the airport to security, let them know what flight I was on, and then ran to the gate after walking through the metal detector fully clothed and sending my bag through x-ray. Security radioed the gate and the flight crew left the door open so I could board. I made it, took my seat and buckled in, they closed the door and the plane pushed back. Elapsed time car seat to plane seat was about 7 minutes. Every single person I interacted with was helpful and understanding. What strikes me today is that EVERY SINGLE THING ABOUT FLYING SUCKS. Airports are just part of the problem. I know this sounds extreme but they need to deregulate and privatize every single thing about the airline industry. Government just needs to ensure that liability flows in part to executives and board members regardless of corporate structure. Airlines can form a consortium to operate ATC themselves and can modernize it; something the government is completely failing at. A modern ATC would let us break away from the hub model that gives airports so much power. And your sandwich will be cheaper at an airport closer to your destination where you didn’t have to wait an hour for security to feel you up and take naked pictures of you.
- ido 4y ago
  I don’t know where your faith that deregulating and privatizing would help the experience comes from. Here in Europe once they privatized parts of rail travel the experience got markedly worse. I moved to Europe about 20 years ago and it used to be much more of a pleasure taking trains with the EU (mostly talking about long range international trains within Central Europe) even not that long ago. Specifically in Germany the experience seems to have only gotten worse (both with quality of service and punctuality).
  - saurik 4y ago
    FWIW, in the US an airport doesn't actually have to use the TSA: the government can't actually quite mandate a single vendor like that here; there thereby exist private companies that operate to the TSA specification, and an airport can go with one of them instead. The airport in San Francisco (SFO) is the only one I have ever seen do this, using a vendor named CAS... and while the experience is mandated to suck a lot, it still sucks a lot less than the TSA as the CAS employees seem to get that they are just security technicians, not officers of the state (a distinction the TSA people don't understand, but also applies to them: the police at the airport, for example, have lots of jurisdiction over them, as far as I understand).
morelisp 4y ago
I got me a white bread sandwich with some shredded lettuce And then I got me a ringside view for my quaint little fetish I just wanna drain my little pink heart of all its malice And kick back for the afternoon in this fluorescent palace

bobthepanda 4y ago

Changi in Singapore is very much a common space, because the security is at the gate.

paulmooreparks 4y ago
Not really. A boarding pass is required for airside access.
- refurb 4y ago
  Exactly. Changi is no different than other airports - you can only access the ticketing and baggage arrival areas unless you have a boarding pass. It does have a massive mall attached to the public area though (Jewel).
  - JadedEngineer 4y ago
    Yes but security is done at each individual gate which makes a massive difference. And the staff is nice and polite. I don't remember ever queing for anything at Changi and I've used it so much. It's about the only airport I don't hate these days.
    - FabHK 4y ago
      Security at the individual gate is also done at Kuala Lumpur, Doha, and some others. I prefer the usual arrangement of a centralised security check. This stack exchange answer does a good job listing some of the advantages and disadvantages of security at the gate: https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/34818/why-is-security-screening-done-at-the-gate-in-some-airports https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/34818/why-is-secu...
      - 7952 4y ago
        I think some of the space saving benefits are overstated. Baggage claim takes up a surprisingly large amount of space and you still need customs.
    - refurb 4y ago
      Security isn't done at the individual gate in Terminal 4 (newest terminal). And actually security screening at the gate is a pain in the ass. Once you're screened you're stuck in a room with no bathrooms (you need to leave and get rescreened). And if your flight changes gates (happened to me), you have to get rescreened all over again. It is helpful in the sense that bottlenecks don't happen earlier on, but I'm not sure it's that great of an approach.
hackernewds 4y ago
Changi is a stunning example of how beautiful an airport experience can be. I fly through there + Singapore airlines every chance I get. Perhaps a benevolent "dictatorship" can be beneficial.
- mrosett 4y ago
  “Benevolent” dictatorship
- Kamq 4y ago
  A single dictator has never really been the problem. You can find dictators that do better than democracies throughout history (especially on long-term planning). It's the transition of power that's the problem. Like, a real bad problem. Like raze half your country and set you back 50-100 years problem.
  - mongol 4y ago
    What kind of dictator are you talking about? Roman-style, where it could be time limited, or the modern version, of which there are many terrible examples before power transition becomes an issue?
    - denton-scratch 4y ago
      > could be time limited Roman dictators weren't like modern autocrats. They were officials, appointed for a limited time (usually no more than 6 months) to address some specific emergency. They weren't crooks who staged coups. And it doesn't seem to have been a desirable appointment to hold; dictators often stood down before the time-limit.
      - vanattab 4y ago
        I mean your technically correct that dictators were supposed to give up thier absolute power and indeed some did. But there is definitely a reason the term has adopted it current meaning.
    - 4y ago

efitz 4y ago

In the early 1990s I was very late for a flight. My friend dropped me off at the departure area; I got out of the car 5 minutes before departure time. I ran through the airport to security, let them know what flight I was on, and then ran to the gate after walking through the metal detector fully clothed and sending my bag through x-ray. Security radioed the gate and the flight crew left the door open so I could board. I made it, took my seat and buckled in, they closed the door and the plane pushed back. Elapsed time car seat to plane seat was about 7 minutes. Every single person I interacted with was helpful and understanding. What strikes me today is that EVERY SINGLE THING ABOUT FLYING SUCKS. Airports are just part of the problem. I know this sounds extreme but they need to deregulate and privatize every single thing about the airline industry. Government just needs to ensure that liability flows in part to executives and board members regardless of corporate structure. Airlines can form a consortium to operate ATC themselves and can modernize it; something the government is completely failing at. A modern ATC would let us break away from the hub model that gives airports so much power. And your sandwich will be cheaper at an airport closer to your destination where you didn’t have to wait an hour for security to feel you up and take naked pictures of you.

ido 4y ago
I don’t know where your faith that deregulating and privatizing would help the experience comes from. Here in Europe once they privatized parts of rail travel the experience got markedly worse. I moved to Europe about 20 years ago and it used to be much more of a pleasure taking trains with the EU (mostly talking about long range international trains within Central Europe) even not that long ago. Specifically in Germany the experience seems to have only gotten worse (both with quality of service and punctuality).
- saurik 4y ago
  FWIW, in the US an airport doesn't actually have to use the TSA: the government can't actually quite mandate a single vendor like that here; there thereby exist private companies that operate to the TSA specification, and an airport can go with one of them instead. The airport in San Francisco (SFO) is the only one I have ever seen do this, using a vendor named CAS... and while the experience is mandated to suck a lot, it still sucks a lot less than the TSA as the CAS employees seem to get that they are just security technicians, not officers of the state (a distinction the TSA people don't understand, but also applies to them: the police at the airport, for example, have lots of jurisdiction over them, as far as I understand).

morelisp 4y ago

I got me a white bread sandwich with some shredded lettuce And then I got me a ringside view for my quaint little fetish I just wanna drain my little pink heart of all its malice And kick back for the afternoon in this fluorescent palace