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Your opinion is based entirely on the assumption of materialism. We used to think the earth was the center of the universe, we learned it's not. We used to th

Your opinion is based entirely on the assumption of materialism. We used to think the earth was the center of the universe, we learned it's not. We used to think the earth was the center of the solar system, we learned it's not. We now think that the brain is the center of consciousness. The trend is usually in breaking away from the idea that we're special, not in reaffirming what we already assume. In this case, the assumption is that our brains are special. The breaking away would be understanding that the brain is not the center of consciousness, but that we're a part of something bigger, something which does not look like what we assume or imagine. That means that future knowledge will likely not look like it is reaffirming any particular religion, not will it look like it is reaffirming the current popular fundamentalist materialist view.

ly3xqhl8g9 3y ago
I remember a short quip, perhaps from Marguerite Duras, "all these people speak about materialism, yet they barely know what matter is". I linked below how the atom is mostly empty, here is a chart of the elementary particles with the three generations of matter and anti-matter [1], and here is a hydrogen wave function just because it's beautiful [2]. You tell me to what kind of "materialism" do I belong to. Perhaps I am too "tau-onic", or maybe too "anticharm-ic" (I am the first to say that the particle names are just awful, naming things is hard, naming the constituents of things is impossible). I have seen people dieing, dear people. I don't care if they went "somewhere", I just care that they are no longer here. And if they were to choose, they would still choose to be here and not go "somewhere", wherever and however it may be. Nevertheless, looking at the facts sober, without any glam or fantasy, they went nowhere, just like when they've fallen asleep a thousand times beforehand. And it is very disingenuous, childish, and hurtful to pretend otherwise. The brain not being the center of consciousness is just ridiculous. I hope you don't think our feet are the center of consciousness, because we would have then some zombie amputees. But if you believe it to be out there, in the universe, put some glasses of wine in front of you, or whatever alcoholic beverage you fancy, then ask yourself why do you get drunk only after you ingest them (Not condoning alcoholic intake otherwise as mere experiment, for the science). Our brains are special insofar as they are able to give rise to an agent, as opposed to a rock, just sitting there. If on some distant planet there is also a similar in effects object, then sure, that object is also rather special. [1] https://www.dfa.unict.it/sites/default/files/images/1280px-Standard_Model_of_Elementary_Particles_Anti.jpg https://www.dfa.unict.it/sites/default/files/images/1280px-S... [2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Hydrogen_Density_Plots.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Hydrogen...
- yadingus 3y ago
  materialism refers to the belief that matter comes first, and that consciousness and experience came after millions of years of matter developing into life and life evolving and so on. I'm not denying this is a reasonable possibility, or that you're wrong or crazy to take that assumption. What I'm saying is that that's what it is, an assumption. Too many times materalists forget this. The discussion of whether we "go" "somewhere" when we die is complicated, in part perhaps because you're assuming that anyone that questions whether there's total annihilation of experience after death, you assume those people believe some preconceived notion such as heaven, ghosts, etc. And probably operating on assumptions about what we mean by "we". For example, our bodies don't disappear when we die, the matter that composed them is still part of the world, it just spreads and loses the recognizable pattern of "John" or whatever. I see no logical reason why the same can't be true for the mental faculties. Why would information simply disappear into nothingness? Wine has an effect on the mind because there is an obvious interaction between matter and experience. If you are driving a car and I throw dark paint at the windshield, that will affect the operation of the car even if I don't affect you directly. The fact that your driving is affected does not mean that you are the car. As for the brain as the center of consciousness, that would be akin to believing earth to be the center of gravity, without understanding that gravity can act in less obvious, more subtle ways across the universe. But we have no way of measuring consciousness objectively, and we possibly will never have, and this is why I think it's important to highlight how many of the things people take for granted about what we are and our place in the universe, are assumptions and beliefs, not facts.

ly3xqhl8g9 3y ago

I remember a short quip, perhaps from Marguerite Duras, "all these people speak about materialism, yet they barely know what matter is". I linked below how the atom is mostly empty, here is a chart of the elementary particles with the three generations of matter and anti-matter [1], and here is a hydrogen wave function just because it's beautiful [2]. You tell me to what kind of "materialism" do I belong to. Perhaps I am too "tau-onic", or maybe too "anticharm-ic" (I am the first to say that the particle names are just awful, naming things is hard, naming the constituents of things is impossible). I have seen people dieing, dear people. I don't care if they went "somewhere", I just care that they are no longer here. And if they were to choose, they would still choose to be here and not go "somewhere", wherever and however it may be. Nevertheless, looking at the facts sober, without any glam or fantasy, they went nowhere, just like when they've fallen asleep a thousand times beforehand. And it is very disingenuous, childish, and hurtful to pretend otherwise. The brain not being the center of consciousness is just ridiculous. I hope you don't think our feet are the center of consciousness, because we would have then some zombie amputees. But if you believe it to be out there, in the universe, put some glasses of wine in front of you, or whatever alcoholic beverage you fancy, then ask yourself why do you get drunk only after you ingest them (Not condoning alcoholic intake otherwise as mere experiment, for the science). Our brains are special insofar as they are able to give rise to an agent, as opposed to a rock, just sitting there. If on some distant planet there is also a similar in effects object, then sure, that object is also rather special. [1] https://www.dfa.unict.it/sites/default/files/images/1280px-Standard_Model_of_Elementary_Particles_Anti.jpg https://www.dfa.unict.it/sites/default/files/images/1280px-S... [2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Hydrogen_Density_Plots.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Hydrogen...

yadingus 3y ago
materialism refers to the belief that matter comes first, and that consciousness and experience came after millions of years of matter developing into life and life evolving and so on. I'm not denying this is a reasonable possibility, or that you're wrong or crazy to take that assumption. What I'm saying is that that's what it is, an assumption. Too many times materalists forget this. The discussion of whether we "go" "somewhere" when we die is complicated, in part perhaps because you're assuming that anyone that questions whether there's total annihilation of experience after death, you assume those people believe some preconceived notion such as heaven, ghosts, etc. And probably operating on assumptions about what we mean by "we". For example, our bodies don't disappear when we die, the matter that composed them is still part of the world, it just spreads and loses the recognizable pattern of "John" or whatever. I see no logical reason why the same can't be true for the mental faculties. Why would information simply disappear into nothingness? Wine has an effect on the mind because there is an obvious interaction between matter and experience. If you are driving a car and I throw dark paint at the windshield, that will affect the operation of the car even if I don't affect you directly. The fact that your driving is affected does not mean that you are the car. As for the brain as the center of consciousness, that would be akin to believing earth to be the center of gravity, without understanding that gravity can act in less obvious, more subtle ways across the universe. But we have no way of measuring consciousness objectively, and we possibly will never have, and this is why I think it's important to highlight how many of the things people take for granted about what we are and our place in the universe, are assumptions and beliefs, not facts.