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As a business owner, the Rust Trademark Policy is a bigger problem than this post says. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable using any Rust in my business's

As a business owner, the Rust Trademark Policy is a bigger problem than this post says. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable using any Rust in my business's software if this goes through. I mean, when they go so far as to say that the GCC frontend is not a Rust compiler, but "GCC compiler for Rust," and you can't even give stuff away for free, it becomes a minefield for any company. More ranty details about my misgivings are at [1]. [1]: https://gavinhoward.com/2023/04/rust-is-dead-to-me/ https://gavinhoward.com/2023/04/rust-is-dead-to-me/

ModernMech 4y ago
> I have a concealed carry permit. I have firearms and other weapons. I know how to use them, and I will use them in defense of my wife and myself. And you can bet I carry them into places I consider dangerous if it is legal to... So yeah, if this policy goes through, I’m not welcome at Rust events, even if the event organizers agree with me. The policy is about fire arms, not you. Good on you for aspiring to defend your family, but how does bringing fire arms to a technical conference about Rust accomplish that goal? Just leave your gun at home, you'll be fine. You are welcome to attend. Your gun isn't. If you think that the Rust conference is a dangerous place where you will need your gun, I suggest you stay home. I can assure you the conferences are perfectly safe, no one has needed to defend their family at one before. Your wife will be safe as well if you don't bring your gun to the Rust conference. -- As for the rest of your post, I would say I don't see the big deal. It seems like everything you listed would only be a problem if you're trying to start a business around Rust, using the Rust logo and name, or just generally piggybacking on Rust for profit. If that's what you wanted to do, I can see how the policy would be an affront. But as far as someone who wants to just write programs and not build a business around Rust, what is the downside here? I appreciate that the "rust" namespace will not be polluted by unofficial crates. I appreciate they are defending their trademark. Just the direction you don't like? If that's the case, personally I'm fine with it and encourage it. As an avid Rust user, I'll be happy to continue using the language and ecosystem; the software I write with it is very robust and efficient, so I'm happy to. If you don't want to, that's fine too. We'll have our gun-free conferences, you'll be invited, and you're free not to attend if you won't do so without your gun. But if you want to leave it behind we're happy to have you.
- gavinhoward 4y ago
  > Good on you for aspiring to defend your family, but how does bringing fire arms to a technical conference about Rust accomplish that goal? Defending myself is definitely a part of defending my family because if I am gone, there is no one else to defend them. > If you think that the Rust conference is a dangerous place where you will need your gun, I suggest you stay home. I can assure you the conferences are perfectly safe, no one has needed to defend their family at one before. Or themselves? Again, I claim the right to defend myself too. While nothing has happened at Rust events yet, that may very well happen. And ironically, explicit gun-free zones are among the most dangerous places to be. They are places where crazy nuts of any persuasion may show up and open fire with impunity because they can expect no one to fire back. The Covenant school shooter chose the school over another more secure place, and it was people with guns that took the shooter out. The Aurora, Colorado shooting was in a gun-free zone, IIRC. There are others. By implementing this policy, the Rust Foundation will be broadcasting to every person with a killer's will and a gun that Rust events are prime targets, so ironically, this policy will be what makes Rust events dangerous. As for the business side, imagine that the Rust Foundation takes the same dislike to me as they have taken to firearms. Parts of that policy are very open-ended, such that the Foundation could decide they don't like me and come after me on principle for putting "written in Rust" in the README without the TM or Registered marks. This policy is open-ended enough for that. It would be stupid if anyone to accept that a business's existence can depend on the mood of an entity that has shown it to be adversarial to people or companies that it disagrees with. I'm not stupid, so I'm not going to depend on the Rust Foundation.
  - ModernMech 4y ago
    > While nothing has happened at Rust events yet, that may very well happen. You know what, you make a good point. It's only a matter of time before there's a mass shooting at a technical conference in America. I mean, we have them in schools, theatres, churches, malls, grocery stores, sports events, parades, concerts, parks, banks... why not a technical conference? Best avoid them altogether in America unless you're carrying. > It would be stupid if anyone to accept that a business's existence can depend on the mood of an entity that has shown it to be adversarial to people or companies that it disagrees with In that case, I guess we can't use any languages made by corporations. As an independent language developer, I appreciate that your point of view can work out in my favor, so I can't really disagree with it!

ModernMech 4y ago

> I have a concealed carry permit. I have firearms and other weapons. I know how to use them, and I will use them in defense of my wife and myself. And you can bet I carry them into places I consider dangerous if it is legal to... So yeah, if this policy goes through, I’m not welcome at Rust events, even if the event organizers agree with me. The policy is about fire arms, not you. Good on you for aspiring to defend your family, but how does bringing fire arms to a technical conference about Rust accomplish that goal? Just leave your gun at home, you'll be fine. You are welcome to attend. Your gun isn't. If you think that the Rust conference is a dangerous place where you will need your gun, I suggest you stay home. I can assure you the conferences are perfectly safe, no one has needed to defend their family at one before. Your wife will be safe as well if you don't bring your gun to the Rust conference. -- As for the rest of your post, I would say I don't see the big deal. It seems like everything you listed would only be a problem if you're trying to start a business around Rust, using the Rust logo and name, or just generally piggybacking on Rust for profit. If that's what you wanted to do, I can see how the policy would be an affront. But as far as someone who wants to just write programs and not build a business around Rust, what is the downside here? I appreciate that the "rust" namespace will not be polluted by unofficial crates. I appreciate they are defending their trademark. Just the direction you don't like? If that's the case, personally I'm fine with it and encourage it. As an avid Rust user, I'll be happy to continue using the language and ecosystem; the software I write with it is very robust and efficient, so I'm happy to. If you don't want to, that's fine too. We'll have our gun-free conferences, you'll be invited, and you're free not to attend if you won't do so without your gun. But if you want to leave it behind we're happy to have you.

gavinhoward 4y ago
> Good on you for aspiring to defend your family, but how does bringing fire arms to a technical conference about Rust accomplish that goal? Defending myself is definitely a part of defending my family because if I am gone, there is no one else to defend them. > If you think that the Rust conference is a dangerous place where you will need your gun, I suggest you stay home. I can assure you the conferences are perfectly safe, no one has needed to defend their family at one before. Or themselves? Again, I claim the right to defend myself too. While nothing has happened at Rust events yet, that may very well happen. And ironically, explicit gun-free zones are among the most dangerous places to be. They are places where crazy nuts of any persuasion may show up and open fire with impunity because they can expect no one to fire back. The Covenant school shooter chose the school over another more secure place, and it was people with guns that took the shooter out. The Aurora, Colorado shooting was in a gun-free zone, IIRC. There are others. By implementing this policy, the Rust Foundation will be broadcasting to every person with a killer's will and a gun that Rust events are prime targets, so ironically, this policy will be what makes Rust events dangerous. As for the business side, imagine that the Rust Foundation takes the same dislike to me as they have taken to firearms. Parts of that policy are very open-ended, such that the Foundation could decide they don't like me and come after me on principle for putting "written in Rust" in the README without the TM or Registered marks. This policy is open-ended enough for that. It would be stupid if anyone to accept that a business's existence can depend on the mood of an entity that has shown it to be adversarial to people or companies that it disagrees with. I'm not stupid, so I'm not going to depend on the Rust Foundation.
- ModernMech 4y ago
  > While nothing has happened at Rust events yet, that may very well happen. You know what, you make a good point. It's only a matter of time before there's a mass shooting at a technical conference in America. I mean, we have them in schools, theatres, churches, malls, grocery stores, sports events, parades, concerts, parks, banks... why not a technical conference? Best avoid them altogether in America unless you're carrying. > It would be stupid if anyone to accept that a business's existence can depend on the mood of an entity that has shown it to be adversarial to people or companies that it disagrees with In that case, I guess we can't use any languages made by corporations. As an independent language developer, I appreciate that your point of view can work out in my favor, so I can't really disagree with it!