5 ms·

From my experience with gastro issues, it sounds like covid causes leaky gut and dysbiosis which is leading to a lot of these other issues like brain fog, tired

From my experience with gastro issues, it sounds like covid causes leaky gut and dysbiosis which is leading to a lot of these other issues like brain fog, tiredness, laryngitis, etc. Is there any research looking into this?

thenerdhead 4y ago
There's a lot of research looking into this. Go search on pubmed. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36639608/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36639608/ There's also a large RECOVER initiative to better understand it. https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2023/03/02/recover-what-clinical-research-comes-next-for-helping-people-with-long-covid/ https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2023/03/02/recover-what-clinic...
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  "Go search on pubmed" isn't the argument-winning strategy it used to be. They will sanction any sort of quackery that anyone comes up with. Not saying you're wrong or that I disagree, just that PubMed citations aren't a useful way to prove anything.
  - thenerdhead 4y ago
    Your bias is showing in this comment. I was just trying to be helpful. I have no agenda here. There’s plenty of articles indexed on pubmed about long Covid and GI issues.
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    > They will sanction any sort of quackery... pubmed doesn't 'sanction' anything. it just a database of published articles.
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      By including an article in their database and linking to it from a .gov website, they most certainly are giving it a stamp of approval in the eyes of the public. Sure, that's like saying that Google approves of a given page just because they pull it up in response to a search query. But that goes back to my original point: no intelligent person (or true Scotsman) would back up their argument by saying "Go search Google" and leave it at that. A hypothetical https://www.google.gov https://www.google.gov would be held to very different standards than Google is today. I'd like to say the same about PubMed, but can't.
ceejayoz 4y ago
Is there any reputable research establishing "leaky gut" as a thing at all? It sounds squarely in the pseudoscience category thus far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaky_gut_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaky_gut_syndrome
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- blix 4y ago
  Click the link in that same article for "increased intestinal permeability." These terms are often used interchangably. This particular wikipedia stub is trying to draw a bright line where none exists.
- mortehu 4y ago
  Your own link says that "leaky gut" and "leaky gut syndrome" are not the same.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    “COVID causes a leaky gut and thus widespread vague symptoms” sure sounds like it falls in the unsupported side of things versus, say, celiac.
    - blix 4y ago
      All new science starts with unsupported hypotheses. Going from "unsupported hypothesis" to "consensus established fact" often takes 10+ years. COVID and it's aftereffects are so new that the vast majority of claims are still somewhere in the hypothesis phase. Pretty much every idea about long COVID is still in this phase, and as sibling/cousin comments note it is an area of active research. Science isn't static. It's contantly in evolution as people try to find justifaction for unsupported claims. Dismissing unsupported claims prima facie is fundementally incomaptible with the scientific method.

thenerdhead 4y ago

There's a lot of research looking into this. Go search on pubmed. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36639608/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36639608/ There's also a large RECOVER initiative to better understand it. https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2023/03/02/recover-what-clinical-research-comes-next-for-helping-people-with-long-covid/ https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2023/03/02/recover-what-clinic...

CamperBob2 4y ago
"Go search on pubmed" isn't the argument-winning strategy it used to be. They will sanction any sort of quackery that anyone comes up with. Not saying you're wrong or that I disagree, just that PubMed citations aren't a useful way to prove anything.
- thenerdhead 4y ago
  Your bias is showing in this comment. I was just trying to be helpful. I have no agenda here. There’s plenty of articles indexed on pubmed about long Covid and GI issues.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  > They will sanction any sort of quackery... pubmed doesn't 'sanction' anything. it just a database of published articles.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    By including an article in their database and linking to it from a .gov website, they most certainly are giving it a stamp of approval in the eyes of the public. Sure, that's like saying that Google approves of a given page just because they pull it up in response to a search query. But that goes back to my original point: no intelligent person (or true Scotsman) would back up their argument by saying "Go search Google" and leave it at that. A hypothetical https://www.google.gov https://www.google.gov would be held to very different standards than Google is today. I'd like to say the same about PubMed, but can't.

ceejayoz 4y ago

Is there any reputable research establishing "leaky gut" as a thing at all? It sounds squarely in the pseudoscience category thus far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaky_gut_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaky_gut_syndrome

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
blix 4y ago
Click the link in that same article for "increased intestinal permeability." These terms are often used interchangably. This particular wikipedia stub is trying to draw a bright line where none exists.
mortehu 4y ago
Your own link says that "leaky gut" and "leaky gut syndrome" are not the same.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  “COVID causes a leaky gut and thus widespread vague symptoms” sure sounds like it falls in the unsupported side of things versus, say, celiac.
  - blix 4y ago
    All new science starts with unsupported hypotheses. Going from "unsupported hypothesis" to "consensus established fact" often takes 10+ years. COVID and it's aftereffects are so new that the vast majority of claims are still somewhere in the hypothesis phase. Pretty much every idea about long COVID is still in this phase, and as sibling/cousin comments note it is an area of active research. Science isn't static. It's contantly in evolution as people try to find justifaction for unsupported claims. Dismissing unsupported claims prima facie is fundementally incomaptible with the scientific method.