7 ms·
To get the convo started: The skeptical take is of course that there is no long covid. either people are faking for benefits or they are being sincere but ima
by onos 3y ago
To get the convo started: The skeptical take is of course that there is no long covid. either people are faking for benefits or they are being sincere but imagining it. Similar concerns around Lyme disease.
Q: is there firm evidence for long covid that excludes these possibilities?
- afry1 3y ago[flagged]
- HarryHirsch 3y ago[flagged]
- burnished 3y agoBeing dismissive is not helpful, trying to reduce some one's attempt to bypass the bullshit and get to the meat of the matter to a 'cognitive bias' is also not helpful.
- howinteresting 3y agoBad priors are a cognitive bias.
- burnished 3y agoAre you kidding? What pointless drivel.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- SamoyedFurFluff 3y agoI would argue at least in the United States, the benefits for being disabled is quite limited. There’s wealth limitation (ie. You cannot own more than a certain amount of anything among any assets) and this often precludes disabled people from marriage among other sucky things. The other thing is iirc there’s been brain scans and other biomarker testing of long Covid that shows noticeable differences similar to ME/CFS.
- HarryHirsch 3y agoGetting on the disability rolls in the US is a long, arduous slog. If a substantial number of people make it there, especially if the economy is doing well, that would indicate that, yes, Long Covid is real. The data from the St Louis Fed do look concerning. Civilian Labor Force - With a Disability, 16 to 64 Years, Men: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU01076955 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU01076955 Civilian Labor Force - With a Disability, 16 to 64 Years, Women: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU01076960 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU01076960
- adw 3y agoThere’s more than one definition of disability. Getting any kind of financial support is extremely hard, but getting ADA provision much less so. Most people with a chronic disease which affects your life will have at least some protection from the ADA.
- hezralig 3y agoGetting onto disability can be made harder and therefore artificially deflate stats on the number of people who are suffering. There are fewer SSA workers since the start of the pandemic and often, it takes multiple years for a disabled person to receive disability, often requiring resources that they do not have to complete the process.
- skrebbel 3y agoThis take is basically “I dont know anyone with X” -> “X isn’t real”. I mean you’re not even trying to make an argument. You could say the same about any other sickness that doesnt have obvious externally visible symptoms, and you’d still not be making an argument.
- operatingthetan 3y ago>I mean you’re not even trying to make an argument. So why are you also suggesting they are making one? They clearly presented a skeptical take as an option, then asked a question about whether a better alternative exists. More charity in interpretation would be useful for you.
- rcme 3y agoThe issue with the argument is that it's non-falsifiable because it outright rejects the only evidence without providing any counter evidence.
- operatingthetan 3y agoAs the other poster said, they did not make an argument. The impulse to interpret an earnest question as an argument is incorrect. If I say "here is option X" and make no suggestion that it is my position or advocate it as fact, why would you then try to force it to become my position? Analysis of possible positions is allowed and encouraged.
- rcme 3y agoThey did make an argument by the way they framed their question. Let's say the only evidence of long covid can also be explained by people lying. The way their question is framed makes it sound like we should assume lying is the most likely explanation in such a case.
- operatingthetan 3y ago
- Invictus0 3y agoIt's possible for long covid to be real and not have a definitive biomarker as evidence. For instance, it would have been obvious that someone with Alzheimers or dementia was ill even before the invention of the microscope. Likewise with long covid, it is extremely frustrating and dehumanizing when aloof skeptics question its very existence when you can simply talk to the sufferers and see the proof for yourself. Why would a marathoner suddenly be unable to walk up the stairs without their heart rate rising to over 150bpm? Our lack of understanding of the illness is not good reason to dismiss the existence of the illness; or else if it were, then the field of medicine should have never began at all!
- m_fayer 3y agoThe way your question is phrased implies that you think that sufferers of complex and poorly understood diseases should be assumed guilty (of fraud or insanity) until proven innocent. If that is what you're trying to say, then I would reply that both the history of medicine, as well as the sheer amount of known (to say nothing of unknown) blind spots within current medical practice point toward a more credulous approach toward these sufferers, if you want to believe the truly sick significantly more often than you want to catch the fakers.
- furyofantares 3y ago> The skeptical take is of course that there is no long covid. either people are faking for benefits or they are being sincere but imagining it. I think the skeptical take is neither of these things. What you've described is more of a cynical contrarian take. The skeptical take is not "there's no long covid" but "there MIGHT not be long covid". And it's not ~"people are faking or imagining"~ it's "lots of people develop weird health problems every day that never get explained, which many will now point to as long covid, which makes it super hard to know if long covid exists".
- joseph_grobbles 3y ago[dead]
- amanaplanacanal 3y agoIs there firm evidence that pain even exists? I don’t think there are any biomarkers, we just have to take the patients word for it.