5 ms·

Congratulations, Nest! You're officially successful enough to be sued by entrenched non-innovators who took out overly broad patents so that they would be able

by glimcat 15y ago

Congratulations, Nest! You're officially successful enough to be sued by entrenched non-innovators who took out overly broad patents so that they would be able to milk anyone who successfully built and marketed a product. Honeywell makes damn near every wall thermostat I've ever seen, so it's not like they haven't had time to think about this application area.

malandrew 15y ago
edit: "... so it's not like they haven't had time to think about this application area [and bring a product to market already.]." Further proof that Congress has failed to create a patent system that "promotes the Sciences and the useful Arts"
feralchimp 15y ago
> Honeywell makes damn near every wall thermostat I've ever seen ...and now we have a slightly improved understanding of why that is, since the underlying technology is not highly advanced.
adestefan 15y ago
Can you please tell me why you think Honeywell is a non-innovator? Is it because they don't make shiny boxes to put on the wall of your home? Honeywell is well established as an innovator in advanced HVAC command and control for commercial buildings.
- warfangle 15y ago
  Advanced HVAC for commercial buildings perhaps, but not for homes. Every thermostat I've seen that can do half of what Nest is doing is covered in about 50 buttons, and the ownership manual is a 70 page behemoth. It's like every thermostat manufacturer out there read The Design of Everyday Things and decided to do the exact opposite.
  - theycallmemorty 15y ago
    And yet when was the last time you heard of someone having to apply a patch to the firmware on their thermostat?
    - outworlder 15y ago
      Not all patches are bad. They can be very beneficial, adding new features, for instance. And there's the obvious bug fixing. You are stuck with a defective device if you can't update it.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
  - hmottestad 15y ago
    True. You'd think that by now, with everyone having wifi, they would make a thermostat you could sync with you calendar, or at least turn on and off from your iphone. Well, actually they do make this(1) but it's got a hefty price tag and it's made for enterprise users, not homes. (1) http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/products/wireless/total_connect http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/products/wireless/t...
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - jonhendry 15y ago
      No, it's for residential use also: http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/related_links/thermostats/prestige/50-1078.pdf http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/related_links/therm... "Prestige Comfort Systems have Honeywell RedLINKTM technology inside - giving you endless possibilities for controlling and monitoring comfort inside your home"
  - jonhendry 15y ago
    As I note above, Honeywell does have a color touchscreen, no-button, net-connected programmable thermostat that costs about what the Nest thermostat costs. For homes. But, stupidly, they don't sell it in stores, they sell it through HVAC contractors, so do-it-yourselfers won't run into them at the hardware store.
- Lewisham 15y ago
  * Is it because they don't make shiny boxes to put on the wall of your home?* Well, yes, that's exactly what he's saying, because that's exactly the market Nest is targeting. What's your point?
  - adestefan 15y ago
    Just because someone isn't targeting you doesn't mean they aren't innovating. It reeks of HN bias that no one in their right mind should ever become an employee of some corporation because they aren't making a shiny box or a X, Y, Z website (substitute your favorite tech of the month for X, Y, and Z)
    - wtallis 15y ago
      If you're not innovating in an area, you aren't furthering "the Progress of Science and useful Arts". Unfortunately, 35 U.S.C. § 271(d)(4) makes it ok to do nothing with a patent except sue, so you aren't doing anything illegal, but you sure as hell are gaming the system.
- jerf 15y ago
  "Can you please tell me why you think Honeywell is a non-innovator?" In general, I wouldn't defend that statement (which isn't mine). But I would defend the statement that these are either not "innovations", or certainly are innovations so obvious they are mostly or entirely not worthy of government-granted monopoly: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3558260 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3558260
jonhendry 15y ago
Honeywell makes fancy full-color LCD touch-screen thermostats with internet connectivity, friendly graphics showing the weather, etc. http://yourhome.honeywell.com/home/Products/Thermostats/7-Day-Programmable/Prestige+HD+7-Day+Programmable+Comfort+System.htm http://yourhome.honeywell.com/home/Products/Thermostats/7-Da... But I don't think they sell them in regular stores much, so you don't see them on the rack at Home Depot. You only see the cheaper lower-end models with all the buttons. Honeywell sells their $250 fancy thermostats through HVAC contractors, so do-it-yourself types probably won't encounter them. Nest might not be taking advantage of a gap in technology in the thermostat market, so much as taking advantage of a flawed distribution model.

by glimcat 15y ago

malandrew 15y ago

edit: "... so it's not like they haven't had time to think about this application area [and bring a product to market already.]." Further proof that Congress has failed to create a patent system that "promotes the Sciences and the useful Arts"

feralchimp 15y ago

> Honeywell makes damn near every wall thermostat I've ever seen ...and now we have a slightly improved understanding of why that is, since the underlying technology is not highly advanced.

adestefan 15y ago

Can you please tell me why you think Honeywell is a non-innovator? Is it because they don't make shiny boxes to put on the wall of your home? Honeywell is well established as an innovator in advanced HVAC command and control for commercial buildings.

warfangle 15y ago
Advanced HVAC for commercial buildings perhaps, but not for homes. Every thermostat I've seen that can do half of what Nest is doing is covered in about 50 buttons, and the ownership manual is a 70 page behemoth. It's like every thermostat manufacturer out there read The Design of Everyday Things and decided to do the exact opposite.
- theycallmemorty 15y ago
  And yet when was the last time you heard of someone having to apply a patch to the firmware on their thermostat?
  - outworlder 15y ago
    Not all patches are bad. They can be very beneficial, adding new features, for instance. And there's the obvious bug fixing. You are stuck with a defective device if you can't update it.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- hmottestad 15y ago
  True. You'd think that by now, with everyone having wifi, they would make a thermostat you could sync with you calendar, or at least turn on and off from your iphone. Well, actually they do make this(1) but it's got a hefty price tag and it's made for enterprise users, not homes. (1) http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/products/wireless/total_connect http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/products/wireless/t...
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - jonhendry 15y ago
    No, it's for residential use also: http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/related_links/thermostats/prestige/50-1078.pdf http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/related_links/therm... "Prestige Comfort Systems have Honeywell RedLINKTM technology inside - giving you endless possibilities for controlling and monitoring comfort inside your home"
- jonhendry 15y ago
  As I note above, Honeywell does have a color touchscreen, no-button, net-connected programmable thermostat that costs about what the Nest thermostat costs. For homes. But, stupidly, they don't sell it in stores, they sell it through HVAC contractors, so do-it-yourselfers won't run into them at the hardware store.
Lewisham 15y ago
* Is it because they don't make shiny boxes to put on the wall of your home?* Well, yes, that's exactly what he's saying, because that's exactly the market Nest is targeting. What's your point?
- adestefan 15y ago
  Just because someone isn't targeting you doesn't mean they aren't innovating. It reeks of HN bias that no one in their right mind should ever become an employee of some corporation because they aren't making a shiny box or a X, Y, Z website (substitute your favorite tech of the month for X, Y, and Z)
  - wtallis 15y ago
    If you're not innovating in an area, you aren't furthering "the Progress of Science and useful Arts". Unfortunately, 35 U.S.C. § 271(d)(4) makes it ok to do nothing with a patent except sue, so you aren't doing anything illegal, but you sure as hell are gaming the system.
jerf 15y ago
"Can you please tell me why you think Honeywell is a non-innovator?" In general, I wouldn't defend that statement (which isn't mine). But I would defend the statement that these are either not "innovations", or certainly are innovations so obvious they are mostly or entirely not worthy of government-granted monopoly: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3558260 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3558260

jonhendry 15y ago

Honeywell makes fancy full-color LCD touch-screen thermostats with internet connectivity, friendly graphics showing the weather, etc. http://yourhome.honeywell.com/home/Products/Thermostats/7-Day-Programmable/Prestige+HD+7-Day+Programmable+Comfort+System.htm http://yourhome.honeywell.com/home/Products/Thermostats/7-Da... But I don't think they sell them in regular stores much, so you don't see them on the rack at Home Depot. You only see the cheaper lower-end models with all the buttons. Honeywell sells their $250 fancy thermostats through HVAC contractors, so do-it-yourself types probably won't encounter them. Nest might not be taking advantage of a gap in technology in the thermostat market, so much as taking advantage of a flawed distribution model.