6 ms·

Neoliberal crony capitalism?

by baremetal 4y ago

nequo 4y ago
What makes lobbying to regulate your competitors out of existence neoliberal?
- samtheprogram 4y ago
  “It’s regulation”
- ericmay 4y ago
  Further, what exactly does this have to do with capitalism? This is strictly a failure of government, and by extension the people.
  - dylmarcor 4y ago
    It’s predatory incumbent firms and industries that seek to manipulate thru regulation, so it’s private sector first coming to utilize public sector for protections. So I’d say it’s pretty capitalist initially, and then a failing of government second.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > it’s private sector first coming to utilize public sector for protections. So I’d say it’s pretty capitalist initially, and then a failing of government second. I’d say its just capitalist, period. The owners of capital, collectively and individually, using government as a vehicle to advance their interest is the whole origin and nature of capitalism. “free markets”, etc., are post hoc idealistic rationalizations that were created to defend those interests by selling people on capitalism well after it existed, and do not reflect the reality of capitalism.
  - jeromegv 4y ago
    When your whole political system depends on donations from large corporations, the government becomes in service of capitalism. Sure a failure of government but when you have built every incentives to promote those behaviours, the opposite would be surprising. Many countries ban donations from companies, doesn't let companies pay for politicians ads, etc. Doesn't mean it's perfect, government rely on jobs from companies to make their citizens happy, but it does help to make the politician a bit more independent from corporate interest.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      It is simple government corruption and there is nothing unique about it to capitalism. The same phenomenon occurs with other forms of government, such as Socialism or communism.
    - relativ575 4y ago
      > When your whole political system depends on donations from large corporations, Hmm, outrage sounding yet devoid of any meaning. No wonder populism is trendy. It invokes anger in people without viable solution. Corruption exists all over the world regardless of political or economy system. If donation cannot be done legally, and documented, it will be done under the table. Qatargate is only a recent example, known because of its high profile, not because it being rare. "Panzeri's group received payment in cash from Qatar, Morocco, Mauritania and possibly Saudi Arabia. The group are described as "shockingly amateurish", because they stored the money they received in bribes in their apartments, made hundreds of unencrypted telephone calls and held a "held a conspiratorial meeting in a hotel that was full of surveillance cameras". Nevertheless, they operated undetected for years. Green Party MEP Viola von Cramon-Taubadel said that Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Russia also "systematically purchased influence over an extended period" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_corruption_scandal_at_the_European_Parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_corruption_scandal_at_th...
  - Gh0stRAT 4y ago
    >Further, what exactly does this have to do with capitalism? Well it clearly incentivizes regulatory capture, so there's that.
  - whitemary 4y ago
    As Karl Marx correctly illustrated 150 years ago, a state under capitalism is merely a capitalist state.
  - bcrosby95 4y ago
    It's a natural extension of capitalism into government. Is that a failure? When you have no strong barriers keeping people and organizations from being able to buy politicians, practically no one with any power looking to change it, I would say that it isn't - at that point it's just working as intended.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

Neoliberal crony capitalism?

nequo 4y ago

What makes lobbying to regulate your competitors out of existence neoliberal?

samtheprogram 4y ago
“It’s regulation”
ericmay 4y ago
Further, what exactly does this have to do with capitalism? This is strictly a failure of government, and by extension the people.
- dylmarcor 4y ago
  It’s predatory incumbent firms and industries that seek to manipulate thru regulation, so it’s private sector first coming to utilize public sector for protections. So I’d say it’s pretty capitalist initially, and then a failing of government second.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > it’s private sector first coming to utilize public sector for protections. So I’d say it’s pretty capitalist initially, and then a failing of government second. I’d say its just capitalist, period. The owners of capital, collectively and individually, using government as a vehicle to advance their interest is the whole origin and nature of capitalism. “free markets”, etc., are post hoc idealistic rationalizations that were created to defend those interests by selling people on capitalism well after it existed, and do not reflect the reality of capitalism.
- jeromegv 4y ago
  When your whole political system depends on donations from large corporations, the government becomes in service of capitalism. Sure a failure of government but when you have built every incentives to promote those behaviours, the opposite would be surprising. Many countries ban donations from companies, doesn't let companies pay for politicians ads, etc. Doesn't mean it's perfect, government rely on jobs from companies to make their citizens happy, but it does help to make the politician a bit more independent from corporate interest.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    It is simple government corruption and there is nothing unique about it to capitalism. The same phenomenon occurs with other forms of government, such as Socialism or communism.
  - relativ575 4y ago
    > When your whole political system depends on donations from large corporations, Hmm, outrage sounding yet devoid of any meaning. No wonder populism is trendy. It invokes anger in people without viable solution. Corruption exists all over the world regardless of political or economy system. If donation cannot be done legally, and documented, it will be done under the table. Qatargate is only a recent example, known because of its high profile, not because it being rare. "Panzeri's group received payment in cash from Qatar, Morocco, Mauritania and possibly Saudi Arabia. The group are described as "shockingly amateurish", because they stored the money they received in bribes in their apartments, made hundreds of unencrypted telephone calls and held a "held a conspiratorial meeting in a hotel that was full of surveillance cameras". Nevertheless, they operated undetected for years. Green Party MEP Viola von Cramon-Taubadel said that Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Russia also "systematically purchased influence over an extended period" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_corruption_scandal_at_the_European_Parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_corruption_scandal_at_th...
- Gh0stRAT 4y ago
  >Further, what exactly does this have to do with capitalism? Well it clearly incentivizes regulatory capture, so there's that.
- whitemary 4y ago
  As Karl Marx correctly illustrated 150 years ago, a state under capitalism is merely a capitalist state.
- bcrosby95 4y ago
  It's a natural extension of capitalism into government. Is that a failure? When you have no strong barriers keeping people and organizations from being able to buy politicians, practically no one with any power looking to change it, I would say that it isn't - at that point it's just working as intended.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]