4 ms·

>Supporting old hardware costs money because you need to write more tests. Not supporting old hardware has major costs too: ewaste pollution. But of course th

>Supporting old hardware costs money because you need to write more tests. Not supporting old hardware has major costs too: ewaste pollution. But of course those costs are 'externalized' and not borne by Apple, but by everyone else.

GeekyBear 4y ago
> Not supporting old hardware has major costs too: ewaste pollution. I would not be at all shocked to find that, by volume, Android devices that vendors have refused to support with software updates over the years take up far more space in landfills.
- 1over137 4y ago
  Indeed. But two wrongs don't make a right.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  What does that have to do with anything?
sys_64738 4y ago
You do understand that the old HW doesn't suddenly stop working when it's unsupported by the new OS.
- 1over137 4y ago
  True, but it means you don't get security updates, because Apple doesn't provide full security updates except on the newest OS: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-secu...
  - woobar 4y ago
    This is not true. I've just got a security update (12.6.5) for a nine year old hardware. Newest is macOS (13) is not supported on this hardware
    - mlyle 4y ago
      The source article says: > "Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any current version of macOS (for example, macOS 13)," the document reads, "not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions (for example, macOS 12)." > In other words, while Apple will provide security-related updates for older versions of its operating systems, only the most recent upgrades will receive updates for every security problem Apple knows about. Which doesn't contradict what you're saying. Admittedly, the parent phrased it poorly, saying "but it means you don't get security updates" when they really meant "but it means you don't get security updates for all problems".
- VancouverMan 4y ago
  The problem I've encountered with several older Apple and Android devices is that the hardware works just fine, and the older version of the OS also works well enough, but more and more apps begin to require a newer version of the OS. When I can't install, upgrade, or use these apps by normal means, the usefulness of the otherwise-fine device dwindles. For the apps I've experienced this with, I don't even think they truly need the newer version of the OS. I imagine the developers just wanted to reduce testing and customer support overhead in most cases. For any app functionality that may actually require a newer OS version, I'd probably be just fine if that functionality were disabled/unavailable on older devices, especially if it let me use the rest of the app.
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  Sure but many people will upgrade when their laptop stops getting updated for a few versions, which they would not have done had their hardware still been supported with up-to-date software.
- Sakos 4y ago
  You do understand that there's an arbitrary cut-off caused by this that leads to things like perfectly usable devices no longer receiving browser updates? Effectively, they do stop working for anybody who does anything with the internet.
mschuster91 4y ago
For what it's worth, Apple supports old hardware for extremely long times. Even after Treble or whatever it was called, Android smartphones have way less support. macOS Ventura is supported on machines that are six years old. macOS Big Sur, which is the oldest supported macOS, runs on machines that are ten years old. And OCLP pushes that even further. In contrast, just look at how ridiculously short many component drivers in the Windows area are maintained. Yes you can run modern Windows, but good luck getting security fixes for all the third party component drivers. In contrast,
- theodric 4y ago
  Please don't act like six years is a long time to offer support. I have a 17-year-old Mac that runs the Windows 10 latest patch set just fine, and makes for a fine space heater at the same time.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    The difference is, once again, Apple by supporting the drivers and fixing bugs. Good luck getting patches should, say, the no-name Bluetooth chipset in your Windows laptop have some sort of security issue.

GeekyBear 4y ago

> Not supporting old hardware has major costs too: ewaste pollution. I would not be at all shocked to find that, by volume, Android devices that vendors have refused to support with software updates over the years take up far more space in landfills.

1over137 4y ago
Indeed. But two wrongs don't make a right.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
What does that have to do with anything?

sys_64738 4y ago

You do understand that the old HW doesn't suddenly stop working when it's unsupported by the new OS.

1over137 4y ago
True, but it means you don't get security updates, because Apple doesn't provide full security updates except on the newest OS: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-secu...
- woobar 4y ago
  This is not true. I've just got a security update (12.6.5) for a nine year old hardware. Newest is macOS (13) is not supported on this hardware
  - mlyle 4y ago
    The source article says: > "Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any current version of macOS (for example, macOS 13)," the document reads, "not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions (for example, macOS 12)." > In other words, while Apple will provide security-related updates for older versions of its operating systems, only the most recent upgrades will receive updates for every security problem Apple knows about. Which doesn't contradict what you're saying. Admittedly, the parent phrased it poorly, saying "but it means you don't get security updates" when they really meant "but it means you don't get security updates for all problems".
VancouverMan 4y ago
The problem I've encountered with several older Apple and Android devices is that the hardware works just fine, and the older version of the OS also works well enough, but more and more apps begin to require a newer version of the OS. When I can't install, upgrade, or use these apps by normal means, the usefulness of the otherwise-fine device dwindles. For the apps I've experienced this with, I don't even think they truly need the newer version of the OS. I imagine the developers just wanted to reduce testing and customer support overhead in most cases. For any app functionality that may actually require a newer OS version, I'd probably be just fine if that functionality were disabled/unavailable on older devices, especially if it let me use the rest of the app.
satvikpendem 4y ago
Sure but many people will upgrade when their laptop stops getting updated for a few versions, which they would not have done had their hardware still been supported with up-to-date software.
Sakos 4y ago
You do understand that there's an arbitrary cut-off caused by this that leads to things like perfectly usable devices no longer receiving browser updates? Effectively, they do stop working for anybody who does anything with the internet.

mschuster91 4y ago

For what it's worth, Apple supports old hardware for extremely long times. Even after Treble or whatever it was called, Android smartphones have way less support. macOS Ventura is supported on machines that are six years old. macOS Big Sur, which is the oldest supported macOS, runs on machines that are ten years old. And OCLP pushes that even further. In contrast, just look at how ridiculously short many component drivers in the Windows area are maintained. Yes you can run modern Windows, but good luck getting security fixes for all the third party component drivers. In contrast,

theodric 4y ago
Please don't act like six years is a long time to offer support. I have a 17-year-old Mac that runs the Windows 10 latest patch set just fine, and makes for a fine space heater at the same time.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  The difference is, once again, Apple by supporting the drivers and fixing bugs. Good luck getting patches should, say, the no-name Bluetooth chipset in your Windows laptop have some sort of security issue.