6 ms·

I can't see mentioned anywhere, that they are working without visa? Where do you see that?

withinboredom 4y ago
I highly doubt those remote workers are citizens of whatever country they’re remote working in or that Facebook/Meta relocated them there to a local branch. It’s generally nearly impossible (some countries have a remote work visa) to get a work visa if the company you work for doesn’t have an office in the country.
- basisword 4y ago
  Varies but you generally only need a work visa to work for a local company. Otherwise you can work under a tourist visa.
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    I guess that’s true until you get caught or a disgruntled employee calls the local immigration office. Worse is that not only is the employee charged with fraud and tax evasion (because that’s what they’re doing) but the company can be sanctioned as well.
    - AmericanChopper 4y ago
      If an employee simply picks up and starts doing their job from another country, they will almost certainly be still paying all the same taxes they usually pay in the country where their job is located. To relieve yourself of that tax burden requires a significant restructuring of your employment, tax residency in a new country, and most likely a double taxation treaty with your home country. Even then, if you were a US citizen, moving to a lower tax jurisdiction is unlikely to provide any significant tax advantages due to the way the US taxes global income regardless of where you live/earn your income.
      - withinboredom 4y ago
        It doesn’t matter where your job is located. It matters where you currently ARE and the laws OF WHERE YOU ARE. You pay income taxes in the country you reside and make income in, not the country of the business that paid you (in most countries). The US is unique in that you must file income taxes if you work even a few hours for a business meeting (ask me how I found out — the fines aren’t pretty). Tax laws are ridiculous everywhere, but one thing is for sure, they want that income tax if they can get it. Especially because in EU countries (for most tech worker US salaries), a large portion would be taxed at >40%.
        AmericanChopper 4y ago
        This isn’t how it works at all. If you spend less than 183 days/year in a country, you typically won’t have tax residency there. It’s quite normal for countries to tax locally sourced income, regardless of tax residency status. But a remote worker isn’t going to have any locally sourced income. Even if you do get tax residency in a new country, there are many cases where that wouldn’t entitle them to tax a remote worker’s income anyway. For instance if you had tax residency in a new country, and tax residency at home at the same time, and there was a double taxation between the two countries, your home country would likely retain the exclusively right to tax you for all or most of that income.
        withinboredom 4y ago
        So you are saying a contractor working for a company outside of their country doesn’t have to pay income taxes. I think you found the best loophole ever /s Obviously, being a contractor for a foreign company doesn’t excuse you from paying taxes. The same applies if you are employed except now you are employed illegally by a foreign company. The employee isn’t the only one who gets in trouble, fwiw. I worked for a 100% remote company and there were legal guides for being a nomad. If you didn’t follow the advice, it was grounds for immediate firing. Some countries don’t care, some, like Italy, will arrest you in a heartbeat. And some, will just fine you for every day you “worked” (the US). For the US, tax residency for the entire year is 33 days. If you are an expat, this is something you are acutely aware of, because you can lose your foreign income exclusion for 5 years if you go back for too long. For most other countries, it’s ~180 days to become a tax resident, but that usually only applies in certain situations (like in Europe, if you are a tax resident of another EU country) otherwise it is 0 days.
  - pavlov 4y ago
    That’s not true for most countries. Tourist visas are not for any kind of work. Business visas permit attending meetings and conducting business activities to benefit a company in the traveller’s origin country, but in general there has to be a connection to the country issuing the visa — “I just want to live there for three months” isn’t a business purpose.
    - basisword 4y ago
      Maybe it’s different when working for a company, but I’ve been self employed + worked in a foreign country under a tourist visa for 5 months. On arrival I was taken to an interview room for 5 mins to explain how I would fund my trip, explained I ran my own business working online, and once I confirmed I would not be working for a local company while there they were perfectly happy.
      - pavlov 4y ago
        You need to know the local rules. If you enter the USA with a tourist visa or visa waiver (like ESTA), and tell the immigration officer that this is what you’ll be doing in the country, you’ll most likely be sent back. Foreigners need work authorization in the US to earn any kind of income — no matter if it’s paid abroad — unless the work is within the narrow categories of permitted activities under a business visa.
    - AmericanChopper 4y ago
      I don’t know of any temporary entry visas that prohibits you from doing online work while you’re visiting. Most of them even permit you to do in-person work for local clients to some extent. People who travel constantly doing remote work on VOAs isn’t anything new, it’s just more accessible now than it used to be. I’d be very interested in seeing any case law references you have to support this novel interpretation that you’ve come up with.
      - pavlov 4y ago
        It’s not hard to come up with examples. For example the United States explicitly prohibits you from doing remote work: ”[…] any noncitizen who earns an income in the US must have proper work authorization from the United States government. Working while physically present in the US, even for a foreign employer and even if any earnings are paid into a foreign bank account, will still be classed as work.“ https://www.nnuimmigration.com/can-you-work-remotely-from-us/ https://www.nnuimmigration.com/can-you-work-remotely-from-us...

I highly doubt those remote workers are citizens of whatever country they’re remote working in or that Facebook/Meta relocated them there to a local branch. It’s generally nearly impossible (some countries have a remote work visa) to get a work visa if the company you work for doesn’t have an office in the country.

basisword 4y ago
Varies but you generally only need a work visa to work for a local company. Otherwise you can work under a tourist visa.
- withinboredom 4y ago
  I guess that’s true until you get caught or a disgruntled employee calls the local immigration office. Worse is that not only is the employee charged with fraud and tax evasion (because that’s what they’re doing) but the company can be sanctioned as well.
  - AmericanChopper 4y ago
    If an employee simply picks up and starts doing their job from another country, they will almost certainly be still paying all the same taxes they usually pay in the country where their job is located. To relieve yourself of that tax burden requires a significant restructuring of your employment, tax residency in a new country, and most likely a double taxation treaty with your home country. Even then, if you were a US citizen, moving to a lower tax jurisdiction is unlikely to provide any significant tax advantages due to the way the US taxes global income regardless of where you live/earn your income.
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      It doesn’t matter where your job is located. It matters where you currently ARE and the laws OF WHERE YOU ARE. You pay income taxes in the country you reside and make income in, not the country of the business that paid you (in most countries). The US is unique in that you must file income taxes if you work even a few hours for a business meeting (ask me how I found out — the fines aren’t pretty). Tax laws are ridiculous everywhere, but one thing is for sure, they want that income tax if they can get it. Especially because in EU countries (for most tech worker US salaries), a large portion would be taxed at >40%.
      - AmericanChopper 4y ago
        This isn’t how it works at all. If you spend less than 183 days/year in a country, you typically won’t have tax residency there. It’s quite normal for countries to tax locally sourced income, regardless of tax residency status. But a remote worker isn’t going to have any locally sourced income. Even if you do get tax residency in a new country, there are many cases where that wouldn’t entitle them to tax a remote worker’s income anyway. For instance if you had tax residency in a new country, and tax residency at home at the same time, and there was a double taxation between the two countries, your home country would likely retain the exclusively right to tax you for all or most of that income.
        withinboredom 4y ago
        So you are saying a contractor working for a company outside of their country doesn’t have to pay income taxes. I think you found the best loophole ever /s Obviously, being a contractor for a foreign company doesn’t excuse you from paying taxes. The same applies if you are employed except now you are employed illegally by a foreign company. The employee isn’t the only one who gets in trouble, fwiw. I worked for a 100% remote company and there were legal guides for being a nomad. If you didn’t follow the advice, it was grounds for immediate firing. Some countries don’t care, some, like Italy, will arrest you in a heartbeat. And some, will just fine you for every day you “worked” (the US). For the US, tax residency for the entire year is 33 days. If you are an expat, this is something you are acutely aware of, because you can lose your foreign income exclusion for 5 years if you go back for too long. For most other countries, it’s ~180 days to become a tax resident, but that usually only applies in certain situations (like in Europe, if you are a tax resident of another EU country) otherwise it is 0 days.
- pavlov 4y ago
  That’s not true for most countries. Tourist visas are not for any kind of work. Business visas permit attending meetings and conducting business activities to benefit a company in the traveller’s origin country, but in general there has to be a connection to the country issuing the visa — “I just want to live there for three months” isn’t a business purpose.
  - basisword 4y ago
    Maybe it’s different when working for a company, but I’ve been self employed + worked in a foreign country under a tourist visa for 5 months. On arrival I was taken to an interview room for 5 mins to explain how I would fund my trip, explained I ran my own business working online, and once I confirmed I would not be working for a local company while there they were perfectly happy.
    - pavlov 4y ago
      You need to know the local rules. If you enter the USA with a tourist visa or visa waiver (like ESTA), and tell the immigration officer that this is what you’ll be doing in the country, you’ll most likely be sent back. Foreigners need work authorization in the US to earn any kind of income — no matter if it’s paid abroad — unless the work is within the narrow categories of permitted activities under a business visa.
  - AmericanChopper 4y ago
    I don’t know of any temporary entry visas that prohibits you from doing online work while you’re visiting. Most of them even permit you to do in-person work for local clients to some extent. People who travel constantly doing remote work on VOAs isn’t anything new, it’s just more accessible now than it used to be. I’d be very interested in seeing any case law references you have to support this novel interpretation that you’ve come up with.
    - pavlov 4y ago
      It’s not hard to come up with examples. For example the United States explicitly prohibits you from doing remote work: ”[…] any noncitizen who earns an income in the US must have proper work authorization from the United States government. Working while physically present in the US, even for a foreign employer and even if any earnings are paid into a foreign bank account, will still be classed as work.“ https://www.nnuimmigration.com/can-you-work-remotely-from-us/ https://www.nnuimmigration.com/can-you-work-remotely-from-us...