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> We know that beyond a doubt that TikTok’s parent company ByteDance is operating as a surveillance arm of the Chinese Communist Party and gathers information a

> We know that beyond a doubt that TikTok’s parent company ByteDance is operating as a surveillance arm of the Chinese Communist Party and gathers information about Americans against their will. I sure wish we lived in a world where people making decisions for us, such as Sen. Vance here, had to actually back up the the things they say.

lazyeye 4y ago
What kind of evidence would you consider reasonable given that the circumstantial evidence is already overwhelming? I think in defense/strategy circles when planning they never, ever consider intent, only capability.
- guntars 4y ago
  Literally, any evidence at all. I’d even accept the word of a security agency, but there’s nothing besides the “strong beliefs” of some politicians.
  - lazyeye 4y ago
    1. China operates the most sophisticated, comprehensive surveillance state in human history. 2. China is well known for running hacking campaigns against foreign adversaries (there are many examples of this). 3. Chinese companies by law are required to act under the direction of the CCP when requested. 4. It is well-established that TikTok harvests personal data way beyond what is required to target advertising or run a social media company. If you read up on espionage history, and consider the lengths nation states go to gain intelligence (e.g sending nuclear submarines to the bottom of the ocean to tap cables), the idea that China would not make use of one of the largest troves of personal data in human history, from their primary geo-strategic competitor, is ridiculously naive.
    - olyjohn 4y ago
      Yeah and they don't even need TikTok for any of this. There are millions of apps built by Chinese companies already installed on millions of phones. I also have no doubt that they are also buying data from American companies who are selling it in bulk. If they really have so much power and intelligence, do you really think they'd put all their eggs into one app? They know that a ban of TikTok is totally possible, and have plenty of other things in place to harvest intelligence. I bet they are laughing at how we are all so scared of TikTok and wasting all of our time worrying about it.
      - lazyeye 4y ago
        Agreed. It would be good to take action across the entire spectrum of threats, but I'm struggling to understand the logic of "because there are a variety of threats, therefore no action should be taken against one of the biggest".
    - guntars 4y ago
      If the issue is the CCP connection, why aren’t all Chinese apps banned? If the issue is the excessive data collection, why isn’t that banned, regardless of who does it? The most logical conclusion imo is that these reasons are simply bullshit.
      - lazyeye 3y ago
        What are the reasons for the CCP blocking all foreign media apps? I sometimes wonder what the long-term impact is going to be of allowing advocates for foreign powers to fully participate in Western conversations, whilst not even Chinese citizens (let alone foreigners) can advocate against their own govt in China.

lazyeye 4y ago

What kind of evidence would you consider reasonable given that the circumstantial evidence is already overwhelming? I think in defense/strategy circles when planning they never, ever consider intent, only capability.

guntars 4y ago
Literally, any evidence at all. I’d even accept the word of a security agency, but there’s nothing besides the “strong beliefs” of some politicians.
- lazyeye 4y ago
  1. China operates the most sophisticated, comprehensive surveillance state in human history. 2. China is well known for running hacking campaigns against foreign adversaries (there are many examples of this). 3. Chinese companies by law are required to act under the direction of the CCP when requested. 4. It is well-established that TikTok harvests personal data way beyond what is required to target advertising or run a social media company. If you read up on espionage history, and consider the lengths nation states go to gain intelligence (e.g sending nuclear submarines to the bottom of the ocean to tap cables), the idea that China would not make use of one of the largest troves of personal data in human history, from their primary geo-strategic competitor, is ridiculously naive.
  - olyjohn 4y ago
    Yeah and they don't even need TikTok for any of this. There are millions of apps built by Chinese companies already installed on millions of phones. I also have no doubt that they are also buying data from American companies who are selling it in bulk. If they really have so much power and intelligence, do you really think they'd put all their eggs into one app? They know that a ban of TikTok is totally possible, and have plenty of other things in place to harvest intelligence. I bet they are laughing at how we are all so scared of TikTok and wasting all of our time worrying about it.
    - lazyeye 4y ago
      Agreed. It would be good to take action across the entire spectrum of threats, but I'm struggling to understand the logic of "because there are a variety of threats, therefore no action should be taken against one of the biggest".
  - guntars 4y ago
    If the issue is the CCP connection, why aren’t all Chinese apps banned? If the issue is the excessive data collection, why isn’t that banned, regardless of who does it? The most logical conclusion imo is that these reasons are simply bullshit.
    - lazyeye 3y ago
      What are the reasons for the CCP blocking all foreign media apps? I sometimes wonder what the long-term impact is going to be of allowing advocates for foreign powers to fully participate in Western conversations, whilst not even Chinese citizens (let alone foreigners) can advocate against their own govt in China.