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I want to know what portion of the algorithm is responsible for, when you are given a new blank slate user, "tries" certain categories like, let's present this

I want to know what portion of the algorithm is responsible for, when you are given a new blank slate user, "tries" certain categories like, let's present this user travel or cooking material, that's usually safe then, let's try things like certain genres of music, we'll see what they like/don't like what i don't get is... how does that first recommendation on the #foryoupage or discover or whatever it's called, starts recommending you the sex workers who try to post as close to NSFW material as possible, get you to land on their profile, in their bio is a link to their Instagram or Linktree, and then from there it's an OnlyFans link does the system try to recommend a soft entry into this content and then just pivot away if the user doesn't like it?

bluefirebrand 4y ago
It probably just recommends a bunch of stuff that is popular at the moment for new users. Or it tries to match you to an existing profile it has from some ad network data or something.
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  > It probably just recommends a bunch of stuff that is popular at the moment for new users. I get that, but I feel like it starts with "known safe/neutral" material like cooking/traveling/photography/whatever How can it detect "hey, this person might like if we introduce softcore porn into their timeline"? Like, do they have softcore porn identified on a scale and they introduce the really "safe" stuff and then gradually crank it up? Why are they presenting softcore porn at all? The Apple App Store is cool with that ToC wise?
  - bluefirebrand 4y ago
    I think you're overcomplicating it. It's not trying to start with "safe" stuff, it's not trying to "gently introduce" softcore porn. It's going "This video got a billion views in the last 30 minutes, people must love it, let's keep amplifying it to any account that hasn't explicitly rejected this category of content" Presumably blank slate accounts are treated as open to anything, until people start curating.
    - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
      during the curation process, how does it start to slowly introduce sex workers? because when I was on TikTok, it was a non-zero amount of the content
      - libraryatnight 4y ago
        At the risk of going down a rabbit hole for no real reason, I don't use tiktok but when I speak to those that do I've not yet heard this softcore porn/sex worker thing. For example, in my mind, not all ASMR content might lead to sexualized recommendations, but a girl in a bikini top with cat ears doing ASMR might generate both recommendations for ASMR and other more cam-girl like content. So I guess my question is, when you're starting off in tiktok seeing cooking videos, do you trend towards ones that feature 'sexier' hosts? They might not be sex workers to you, but they might be making tiktok think you're interested. Also, what does tiktok know about you to start? What info do you have to give it to start an account?
        MuffinFlavored 4y ago
        so you agree that tiktok is able to classify "cooking videos" and "cooking videos with slightly sexualized hosts"? and that they "willingly" "try to push in recommendations" posts with higher "sexuality" attached content?
        spullara 4y ago
        TikTok gives you the content you enjoy. When someone complains about TikTok content I basically assume they don't understand how good the algorithm is and that you just like that kind of stuff. I don't care whether you do or not but TikTok thinks you do because of the feedback you are giving the app. I mean, you clicked their profile and followed their links all the way to onlyfans. They have to assume you like it.
        libraryatnight 4y ago
        No, again, my assumption is that the user would trend towards that content. You don't need to push people towards it if you have a nuanced enough profile of each video. (all things made up for this example) cookinglady39 does a beach bbq recipe tiktok, in a bathing suit. You watch it. They give you another cookinglady39 video where she's back in the kitchen, you skip it, they give you a new cooking host also female, also dressed in summer attire cooking outside. You watch til the end. It gives you a man cooking outside, you skip. Nothing you've seen so far has been sexual, but tiktok is probably picking up on some trends that might lead them to give you more and more things done by women, then women in a certain setting, dressed a certain way and so on.
Brystephor 4y ago
TikTok likely has enough information about others that it can begin to build a profile about you from the moment you login. Let's use a hypothetical scenario: Someone states that they identify as a man, they're in the 20-25 year old age range, and based on phone location you can gather that they live in Texas. Now you're labeled as a 20-25yo Texas Man. Then you can look at others who fall in the "20-25yo Texas Man" category and show things you'd expect that group to like because chances are, you're more similar to others in the group than being a true outlier. If other people in the "20-25yo Texas Man" group have expressed interest in Apples, NSFW material, and lawn mowing videos, then since you're in that group, it's going to start off with that same material. disclaimer: i've never signed up for tiktok and have no clue if this is how they do it.
- fakedang 4y ago
  You're correct, this is how they do it - or at least that's what they presented at a conference a few years back.
- Mezzie 4y ago
  100% it is. I'm a 34 year old woman and have to be pretty aggressive about not wanting the mommy and wifey shit. I want cats, watching things explode, and the Zoomers' digital Dadaism.
pimlottc 4y ago
The classic terminology for this in AI/ML is "explore vs exploit", i.e. striking a balance between trying new things (in hopes of finding a new favorite) vs going back to the tried-and-true.
nanidin 4y ago
I have noticed these types of videos slip into Facebook’s Reels late at night. It’ll switch from showing me people making candy and doing home improvement stuff - videos with tens of thousands of views and likes, then it will cut to a video with almost 0 views/likes that are basically the beginning of the Onlyfans sales funnel. Never when the sun is up!
- chpatrick 4y ago
  We've reinvented television.

bluefirebrand 4y ago

It probably just recommends a bunch of stuff that is popular at the moment for new users. Or it tries to match you to an existing profile it has from some ad network data or something.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> It probably just recommends a bunch of stuff that is popular at the moment for new users. I get that, but I feel like it starts with "known safe/neutral" material like cooking/traveling/photography/whatever How can it detect "hey, this person might like if we introduce softcore porn into their timeline"? Like, do they have softcore porn identified on a scale and they introduce the really "safe" stuff and then gradually crank it up? Why are they presenting softcore porn at all? The Apple App Store is cool with that ToC wise?
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  I think you're overcomplicating it. It's not trying to start with "safe" stuff, it's not trying to "gently introduce" softcore porn. It's going "This video got a billion views in the last 30 minutes, people must love it, let's keep amplifying it to any account that hasn't explicitly rejected this category of content" Presumably blank slate accounts are treated as open to anything, until people start curating.
  - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
    during the curation process, how does it start to slowly introduce sex workers? because when I was on TikTok, it was a non-zero amount of the content
    - libraryatnight 4y ago
      At the risk of going down a rabbit hole for no real reason, I don't use tiktok but when I speak to those that do I've not yet heard this softcore porn/sex worker thing. For example, in my mind, not all ASMR content might lead to sexualized recommendations, but a girl in a bikini top with cat ears doing ASMR might generate both recommendations for ASMR and other more cam-girl like content. So I guess my question is, when you're starting off in tiktok seeing cooking videos, do you trend towards ones that feature 'sexier' hosts? They might not be sex workers to you, but they might be making tiktok think you're interested. Also, what does tiktok know about you to start? What info do you have to give it to start an account?
      - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
        so you agree that tiktok is able to classify "cooking videos" and "cooking videos with slightly sexualized hosts"? and that they "willingly" "try to push in recommendations" posts with higher "sexuality" attached content?
        spullara 4y ago
        TikTok gives you the content you enjoy. When someone complains about TikTok content I basically assume they don't understand how good the algorithm is and that you just like that kind of stuff. I don't care whether you do or not but TikTok thinks you do because of the feedback you are giving the app. I mean, you clicked their profile and followed their links all the way to onlyfans. They have to assume you like it.
        libraryatnight 4y ago
        No, again, my assumption is that the user would trend towards that content. You don't need to push people towards it if you have a nuanced enough profile of each video. (all things made up for this example) cookinglady39 does a beach bbq recipe tiktok, in a bathing suit. You watch it. They give you another cookinglady39 video where she's back in the kitchen, you skip it, they give you a new cooking host also female, also dressed in summer attire cooking outside. You watch til the end. It gives you a man cooking outside, you skip. Nothing you've seen so far has been sexual, but tiktok is probably picking up on some trends that might lead them to give you more and more things done by women, then women in a certain setting, dressed a certain way and so on.

Brystephor 4y ago

TikTok likely has enough information about others that it can begin to build a profile about you from the moment you login. Let's use a hypothetical scenario: Someone states that they identify as a man, they're in the 20-25 year old age range, and based on phone location you can gather that they live in Texas. Now you're labeled as a 20-25yo Texas Man. Then you can look at others who fall in the "20-25yo Texas Man" category and show things you'd expect that group to like because chances are, you're more similar to others in the group than being a true outlier. If other people in the "20-25yo Texas Man" group have expressed interest in Apples, NSFW material, and lawn mowing videos, then since you're in that group, it's going to start off with that same material. disclaimer: i've never signed up for tiktok and have no clue if this is how they do it.

fakedang 4y ago
You're correct, this is how they do it - or at least that's what they presented at a conference a few years back.
Mezzie 4y ago
100% it is. I'm a 34 year old woman and have to be pretty aggressive about not wanting the mommy and wifey shit. I want cats, watching things explode, and the Zoomers' digital Dadaism.

pimlottc 4y ago

The classic terminology for this in AI/ML is "explore vs exploit", i.e. striking a balance between trying new things (in hopes of finding a new favorite) vs going back to the tried-and-true.

nanidin 4y ago

I have noticed these types of videos slip into Facebook’s Reels late at night. It’ll switch from showing me people making candy and doing home improvement stuff - videos with tens of thousands of views and likes, then it will cut to a video with almost 0 views/likes that are basically the beginning of the Onlyfans sales funnel. Never when the sun is up!

chpatrick 4y ago
We've reinvented television.