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Help Me Refine This Idea: AppSumo + W00t + Prizes.org

2 points by marcamillion 15y ago

I have an idea, that I think is relatively novel, but it can get pretty complex pretty quickly. So I would love for you guys to shoot it down and offer suggestions. Pointing out existing services would be OK too...but not the ultimate goal. Idea: AppSumo + W00t + KickStarter + Ad Platform + Prizes.org = People competing to drive dollars into someone's pocket. Use Case: I, as a startup founder, wants a specific goal (say 300 paid users). I would like to be able to run a campaign that achieves exactly that, and I don't want to pay upfront. This is the workflow. Set a goal, 300 paying users, and get sponsored prizes (not sponsored by me, but someone else that buys attention from this particular campaign) - say Amazon wants to sponsor with 100 Kindles + 37Signals wants to ante up 20 iPads. So the prize pool is 100 Kindles & 20 iPads. Those prizes are awarded to the top 120 'performers'. This would be adjusted by number of prizes and impact the sponsor wants to have. Naturally, the more people competing for the prizes is the more likely the result will be finished quickly. Who can perform? Anyone within that target demographic. In my case, I would want to target designers...so designers that blog and tweet can participate - or rather, would have a higher chance of succeeding. Each participant registers for a unique URL or some trigger that we can attribute to their performance. They then tweet, blog and facebook that campaign. As their referrals convert to customers, they get points. There is a league table that is public so everyone can track how everyone (and the pool) is doing. If there is a time period (say 1 week), and the goal is not completed, no prizes are awarded. If the goal is completed, the prizes are split accordingly (in this case, the top 120 get either a Kindle or an iPad). The platform makes a % cut from the revenue it sends the startup, and possibly from any advertising revenue that is generated (it's possible that companies will eventually bid to be a sponsor...once they become a sponsor, they pay for that slot - plus the prize). So the general idea is that many people benefit - the startup in this case & the advertisers (because the viral campaign is built around their brand, i.e. people are competing for prizes they sponsored). phew Why can this not work or how can I refine it so it is more easily explained? Anyone interested in either sponsoring prizes or helping get this off the ground? I am a Rails developer. P.S. If you steal it and run with it....well....I am hoping you don't, because it's something I am genuinely interested in.

JoachimSchipper 15y ago
Sounds like an affiliate program, with sponsored payments to the affiliates. Affiliate programs can work, and are apparently a pain to get right. However, I don't really see why Amazon et al. would be happy to sponsor such a program; and anyway, 100 (ad-free) Kindles plus 20 iPads for 300 users seems ridiculously high, ~$70/user at retail prices. (Amazon's own affiliate program pays out ~8% to its more successful affiliates, which would imply that Amazon expects to derive value equivalent to a ~$875 purchase from your customers.)
- marcamillion 15y ago
  You are right...about the affiliate program. Also re: Amazon deriving value - you are right....I would need to find a way to demonstrate that this value does exist and show it to Amazon. Because what I was thinking is targeting people promoting a new product (or some other launch). That way, they are in the 'building buzz' around that product/launch phase. I think it's a lot easier to quantify the buzz around a new product launch, than justifying the marketing expense of a regular marketing campaign. Thoughts?
helen842000 15y ago
I've seen this model work well with charity fundraising. Usually the prizes on offer are 'money can't buy' type prizes, lunch with a well known person, a trip to hangout at a famous location etc. That way it's easier for the prize-givers to offer repeatedly and it's a unique experience for the winner. If it was on behalf of for-profit companies, you need to examine the motivation of prize givers. Why would they want to give away those prizes? Alternatively you could flip the idea on it's head and instead of expecting sponsor companies to donate prizes, just set up a really solid referral system, This process is pretty tricky using existing methods. So a company that wants users starts a campaign. Your site generates a unique url for each promoter so that they can tweet/share. The company then tracks the signups through your leaderboard and rewards each promoter per sale, perhaps with a bonus for the top performer. Nothing motivates like helping others to earn money. I guess it's similar to how Clickbank works in a way.
- marcamillion 15y ago
  This is interesting...the motivation for the prize givers, I was thinking, is simply to fit into their 'brand awareness' budget. Specifically, I was thinking of targeting companies that have new product launches and such (e.g. publishers with a new book, or Amazon with a new version of it's Kindle, or Apple with a new version of it's iOS devices, etc.). As for the referral system, that seems a bit scammy to me. It's what existing affiliate networks to do - which is what I was trying to get away from...if that makes sense. Btw, I agree about the charity fundraising...that's kinda where I got the idea, but was trying to find a way it could work for for-profits.
  - helen842000 15y ago
    Yea, the affiliate industry always comes across as scammy and spammy, but it's still huge business. Maybe it needs a fresh new open and legit take on it. People want to earn money, companies want new users. If you're trying to move away from it sounding scammy, then 'Win a Free Ipad' won't project the right image. I think your idea could work if it's given the right kind of branding. Think bit.ly meets kiip.me (so short urls for sharing and promoting results in user signups = real world rewards)
AznHisoka 15y ago
This is similar to what MoreNiche is doing, and other affiliate networks. They have competitions and award prizes like iPods, and game consoles to top 5 or top 10 people with the most affiliate revenue. The hard part is actually getting those affiliates. You just can't expect just any normal Joe, or designer to be able to drive meaningful traffic to any startup. And noone will steal and run with this. It's not a trivial business you can just start in a weekend.
- marcamillion 15y ago
  Interesting re: MoreNiche. Never heard of them...but it just seems soo 'affiliate network-ish'. All of those competitions and such, they seem so scammy. I am trying to come up with a way to get people as involved as they are with the AppSumo deals, without being so scammy. You are right about it being non-trivial.
  - AznHisoka 15y ago
    How are they scammy? The affiliates want to make money, the networks want to make money.. sure some of the affiliates try shady techniques, but the affiliate network themselves are not scams - they do give prizes and reward top performers. Do you just view their products (health/beauty products) as scammy?
    - marcamillion 15y ago
      Not sure what it is, to be honest, but the entire value proposition usually doesn't turn out to be what you thought based on the impression you were given. Consistently underproviding value after a user has given up some personal info or whatever else, seems scammy to me. I do know that there are some legit networks out there....just saying, as a general rule, I have seen too many affiliate networks that appear scammy. Almost seems to be the norm, than the exception. I am sure I am not the only one with that impression either.

2 points by marcamillion 15y ago

JoachimSchipper 15y ago

Sounds like an affiliate program, with sponsored payments to the affiliates. Affiliate programs can work, and are apparently a pain to get right. However, I don't really see why Amazon et al. would be happy to sponsor such a program; and anyway, 100 (ad-free) Kindles plus 20 iPads for 300 users seems ridiculously high, ~$70/user at retail prices. (Amazon's own affiliate program pays out ~8% to its more successful affiliates, which would imply that Amazon expects to derive value equivalent to a ~$875 purchase from your customers.)

marcamillion 15y ago
You are right...about the affiliate program. Also re: Amazon deriving value - you are right....I would need to find a way to demonstrate that this value does exist and show it to Amazon. Because what I was thinking is targeting people promoting a new product (or some other launch). That way, they are in the 'building buzz' around that product/launch phase. I think it's a lot easier to quantify the buzz around a new product launch, than justifying the marketing expense of a regular marketing campaign. Thoughts?

helen842000 15y ago

I've seen this model work well with charity fundraising. Usually the prizes on offer are 'money can't buy' type prizes, lunch with a well known person, a trip to hangout at a famous location etc. That way it's easier for the prize-givers to offer repeatedly and it's a unique experience for the winner. If it was on behalf of for-profit companies, you need to examine the motivation of prize givers. Why would they want to give away those prizes? Alternatively you could flip the idea on it's head and instead of expecting sponsor companies to donate prizes, just set up a really solid referral system, This process is pretty tricky using existing methods. So a company that wants users starts a campaign. Your site generates a unique url for each promoter so that they can tweet/share. The company then tracks the signups through your leaderboard and rewards each promoter per sale, perhaps with a bonus for the top performer. Nothing motivates like helping others to earn money. I guess it's similar to how Clickbank works in a way.

marcamillion 15y ago
This is interesting...the motivation for the prize givers, I was thinking, is simply to fit into their 'brand awareness' budget. Specifically, I was thinking of targeting companies that have new product launches and such (e.g. publishers with a new book, or Amazon with a new version of it's Kindle, or Apple with a new version of it's iOS devices, etc.). As for the referral system, that seems a bit scammy to me. It's what existing affiliate networks to do - which is what I was trying to get away from...if that makes sense. Btw, I agree about the charity fundraising...that's kinda where I got the idea, but was trying to find a way it could work for for-profits.
- helen842000 15y ago
  Yea, the affiliate industry always comes across as scammy and spammy, but it's still huge business. Maybe it needs a fresh new open and legit take on it. People want to earn money, companies want new users. If you're trying to move away from it sounding scammy, then 'Win a Free Ipad' won't project the right image. I think your idea could work if it's given the right kind of branding. Think bit.ly meets kiip.me (so short urls for sharing and promoting results in user signups = real world rewards)

AznHisoka 15y ago

This is similar to what MoreNiche is doing, and other affiliate networks. They have competitions and award prizes like iPods, and game consoles to top 5 or top 10 people with the most affiliate revenue. The hard part is actually getting those affiliates. You just can't expect just any normal Joe, or designer to be able to drive meaningful traffic to any startup. And noone will steal and run with this. It's not a trivial business you can just start in a weekend.

marcamillion 15y ago
Interesting re: MoreNiche. Never heard of them...but it just seems soo 'affiliate network-ish'. All of those competitions and such, they seem so scammy. I am trying to come up with a way to get people as involved as they are with the AppSumo deals, without being so scammy. You are right about it being non-trivial.
- AznHisoka 15y ago
  How are they scammy? The affiliates want to make money, the networks want to make money.. sure some of the affiliates try shady techniques, but the affiliate network themselves are not scams - they do give prizes and reward top performers. Do you just view their products (health/beauty products) as scammy?
  - marcamillion 15y ago
    Not sure what it is, to be honest, but the entire value proposition usually doesn't turn out to be what you thought based on the impression you were given. Consistently underproviding value after a user has given up some personal info or whatever else, seems scammy to me. I do know that there are some legit networks out there....just saying, as a general rule, I have seen too many affiliate networks that appear scammy. Almost seems to be the norm, than the exception. I am sure I am not the only one with that impression either.