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> Adapt or perish So they should be a man, basically. You can put the same message in different words, but the meaning stays the same. I think this is a bit n

> Adapt or perish So they should be a man, basically. You can put the same message in different words, but the meaning stays the same. I think this is a bit naive and also insulting to say the topic would be about self-image in the first place. The economic realities have changed, sure. Former skills became irrelevant, others more important. Still, in the grand scheme of things, for the relevant group not much has changed. Go to work or perish is as as true today as it was in 1970. Just that the middle class shrank considerably and people are not able to afford housing or significant luxury. That has indeed changed and has nothing to do with men/women in particular. > Now, unlike many men working in factory jobs, the male nurse is solidly middle-class. Not really. Nurses are not paid very well for the work they do. The article claims they would be middle-class. But only if you change the definition from the definition 50 years ago. Again just a worsened economic development.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
>That has indeed changed and has nothing to do with men/women in particular. That's where you are wrong. The cultural expectations are still very similar to 1970, but the means to achieve them have worsened considerably. Something like unable to afford housing hits men far harder than women when it comes to social aspects. Language reflects this, with words demonizing men who still live at home or living in a bad place being far more prevalent than the other way around. Men and women work on different formulae. You can't simply say 'oh we give both the same input so the effect is the same'.
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  I can only speak for myself but living at home is not desirable to me. I love my family, but this is not some cultural expectation that is put on me. It is my own desire to be independent and form my own household. I prefer to stay in the vicinity for visits of course, although travel today is quite convenient. Sure, it is more difficult and more expensive in comparison, but if they have the economic means, neither men nor women tend to stay with their parents. I don't deny differences in interest between men and women. Some interests will stay exceptions for one or the other sex.
  - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    Cool. Now go on a few forums and ask it in public, to large numbers, and see who responds more favorably and who responds less favorably. Hint: it is almost always women who are far more unaccepting of it than men, with a pretty significant margin. This is the tip of the iceberg. Once you actually delve into the differences, who says them in what stages of life and why, you'll quickly see how deep this rabbit hole goes and what a gross oversimplification "well men and women both don't like it" is, and why these kind of articles do nothing but harm both men and women in the long term.
    - raxxorraxor 4y ago
      Well, that is their opinion then. If you mean they expect such independence to consider romantic engagements, there are numerous very practical reasons here to make it a requirement or at least something to be desired more. I think women are indeed judged less if they still live at home. Maybe just some different preference like you said.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago

>That has indeed changed and has nothing to do with men/women in particular. That's where you are wrong. The cultural expectations are still very similar to 1970, but the means to achieve them have worsened considerably. Something like unable to afford housing hits men far harder than women when it comes to social aspects. Language reflects this, with words demonizing men who still live at home or living in a bad place being far more prevalent than the other way around. Men and women work on different formulae. You can't simply say 'oh we give both the same input so the effect is the same'.

raxxorraxor 4y ago
I can only speak for myself but living at home is not desirable to me. I love my family, but this is not some cultural expectation that is put on me. It is my own desire to be independent and form my own household. I prefer to stay in the vicinity for visits of course, although travel today is quite convenient. Sure, it is more difficult and more expensive in comparison, but if they have the economic means, neither men nor women tend to stay with their parents. I don't deny differences in interest between men and women. Some interests will stay exceptions for one or the other sex.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  Cool. Now go on a few forums and ask it in public, to large numbers, and see who responds more favorably and who responds less favorably. Hint: it is almost always women who are far more unaccepting of it than men, with a pretty significant margin. This is the tip of the iceberg. Once you actually delve into the differences, who says them in what stages of life and why, you'll quickly see how deep this rabbit hole goes and what a gross oversimplification "well men and women both don't like it" is, and why these kind of articles do nothing but harm both men and women in the long term.
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    Well, that is their opinion then. If you mean they expect such independence to consider romantic engagements, there are numerous very practical reasons here to make it a requirement or at least something to be desired more. I think women are indeed judged less if they still live at home. Maybe just some different preference like you said.