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> “The problem with feminism, as a liberation movement, is not that it has ‘gone too far,’” Reeves writes. “It is that it has not gone far enough”—that is, it h

> “The problem with feminism, as a liberation movement, is not that it has ‘gone too far,’” Reeves writes. “It is that it has not gone far enough”—that is, it has not succeeded in replacing traditional models of masculinity with something more adequate to our current circumstances What if the problem we’re facing is that men actually need traditional models of masculinity?

bell-cot 4y ago
Looking at the bit you quote, I'd say the problem is much bigger and worse than that. Have you seen any sign that the modern feminism movement either cares about such things, or is "mentally coherent" enough to devise workable models? (Vs. performative ideological and rah-rah exercises.)
jfengel 4y ago
"Traditional models of masculinity" have been different traditions in different times and different places. Men cannot possibly "need" the "traditional models" of twentieth century America. The twenty-first century is unprecedented, and everybody (men and women) will adapt to it. The individuals will adapt, and new traditions will arise based on them. They should be inspired by what we know of the past, but claims that "it was better the way things were" fails to acknowledge that things were really, really bad for women (among many others) for a very long time. They demanded change because they hated it.
depressedpanda 4y ago
> What if the problem we’re facing is that men actually need traditional models of masculinity? I'm not sure what you mean by traditional, but it's painfully obvious to me that boys and young men need positive male role models. Feminism offers no solution to this, and never will, since its focus lies elsewhere. Hence, we must acknowledge that as an ideology its incomplete (at best). You can be masculine without being "toxic". They rarely, if ever, write articles about the positive aspects of masculinity.

bell-cot 4y ago

Looking at the bit you quote, I'd say the problem is much bigger and worse than that. Have you seen any sign that the modern feminism movement either cares about such things, or is "mentally coherent" enough to devise workable models? (Vs. performative ideological and rah-rah exercises.)

jfengel 4y ago

"Traditional models of masculinity" have been different traditions in different times and different places. Men cannot possibly "need" the "traditional models" of twentieth century America. The twenty-first century is unprecedented, and everybody (men and women) will adapt to it. The individuals will adapt, and new traditions will arise based on them. They should be inspired by what we know of the past, but claims that "it was better the way things were" fails to acknowledge that things were really, really bad for women (among many others) for a very long time. They demanded change because they hated it.

depressedpanda 4y ago

> What if the problem we’re facing is that men actually need traditional models of masculinity? I'm not sure what you mean by traditional, but it's painfully obvious to me that boys and young men need positive male role models. Feminism offers no solution to this, and never will, since its focus lies elsewhere. Hence, we must acknowledge that as an ideology its incomplete (at best). You can be masculine without being "toxic". They rarely, if ever, write articles about the positive aspects of masculinity.