7 ms·

This is great information and everything, but it seems like you're deflecting. Your smartphone was still made by child labor.

tomohelix 3y ago
I think his point is that given the context that everything is involved with child labor somehow, pointing out just one particular item isn't very helpful. More nuances about iphone being a luxury brand and therefore less justifiable and more "disgusting" can be added. But like how you said it above, it doesn't change the fact that the very economy and the comfort we are enjoying partly come from child labor.
- happytoexplain 3y ago
  I am giving the GP the benefit of the doubt and don't think they are engaging in child labor whataboutism, but I also think they should write in a way that does not invite the qualification of "I think his point is...". >pointing out just one particular item isn't very helpful It absolutely is. And pointing out more is even better!
  - Retric 3y ago
    > It absolutely is. And pointing out more is even better. I don’t see how. If I point out your PC, car, house, office, etc are all likely built in some small way from child labor you’re going to do what exactly? There’s plenty of documentation for many egregious cases, but when you look at the full supply chain for anything it quickly starts to look like the global economy as a whole. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-o...
    - TylerE 3y ago
      And are the deplorable conditions suddenly a-ok the day they turn 18?
      - Retric 3y ago
        Child labor is somewhat orthogonal to deplorable conditions. Child actors can easily fit the definition. There’s also an unfortunate cultural bias where people may view for example Amish children skipping school to take in a harvest as perfectly acceptable when kids in developing economies doing the same things are suddenly not.
        TylerE 3y ago
        It's a symptom of a larger disease. Focus on the disease, not the symptom.
        Retric 3y ago
        You lost me, how do Child Actors fit into your analogy? Or do you mean curtail bias?
        TylerE 3y ago
        Fever is a symptom. Viral pneumonia is a disease. Child labor is a symptom. Unchecked hypercapitalism is a disease.
        Retric 3y ago
        Child labor existed long before capitalism. If anything the correlation goes in the other direction with capitalism reducing child labor over time due to it’s dependence on an educated workforce.
        cassianoleal 3y ago
        > capitalism reducing child labor over time due to it’s dependence on an educated workforce. Dependence on an educated workforce is orthogonal to the economic system. Rather it's a corollary of scientific and technological advancement.
- lazyeye 3y ago
  Who here is looking to be helped on this particular issue?
justinator 3y ago
Anything created under Capitalism is probably morally repulsive on one level or another. I vote to get rid of it entirely, if we can only come up with a better solution. For now, I personally try to participate as little as possible in it.
- justinator 3y ago
  Disagree with me all you want, but if you reply with a point, I'll be honest with a counterpoint.
serf 3y ago
>Your smartphone was still made by child labor. that's mighty presumptuous. and listing other child labor profiteers has a point : it illustrates that perhaps we should probably look for and fix the root causes of child labor rather than punishing a single perpetrator.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

tomohelix 3y ago

I think his point is that given the context that everything is involved with child labor somehow, pointing out just one particular item isn't very helpful. More nuances about iphone being a luxury brand and therefore less justifiable and more "disgusting" can be added. But like how you said it above, it doesn't change the fact that the very economy and the comfort we are enjoying partly come from child labor.

happytoexplain 3y ago
I am giving the GP the benefit of the doubt and don't think they are engaging in child labor whataboutism, but I also think they should write in a way that does not invite the qualification of "I think his point is...". >pointing out just one particular item isn't very helpful It absolutely is. And pointing out more is even better!
- Retric 3y ago
  > It absolutely is. And pointing out more is even better. I don’t see how. If I point out your PC, car, house, office, etc are all likely built in some small way from child labor you’re going to do what exactly? There’s plenty of documentation for many egregious cases, but when you look at the full supply chain for anything it quickly starts to look like the global economy as a whole. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-o...
  - TylerE 3y ago
    And are the deplorable conditions suddenly a-ok the day they turn 18?
    - Retric 3y ago
      Child labor is somewhat orthogonal to deplorable conditions. Child actors can easily fit the definition. There’s also an unfortunate cultural bias where people may view for example Amish children skipping school to take in a harvest as perfectly acceptable when kids in developing economies doing the same things are suddenly not.
      - TylerE 3y ago
        It's a symptom of a larger disease. Focus on the disease, not the symptom.
        Retric 3y ago
        You lost me, how do Child Actors fit into your analogy? Or do you mean curtail bias?
        TylerE 3y ago
        Fever is a symptom. Viral pneumonia is a disease. Child labor is a symptom. Unchecked hypercapitalism is a disease.
        Retric 3y ago
        Child labor existed long before capitalism. If anything the correlation goes in the other direction with capitalism reducing child labor over time due to it’s dependence on an educated workforce.
        cassianoleal 3y ago
        > capitalism reducing child labor over time due to it’s dependence on an educated workforce. Dependence on an educated workforce is orthogonal to the economic system. Rather it's a corollary of scientific and technological advancement.
lazyeye 3y ago
Who here is looking to be helped on this particular issue?

justinator 3y ago

Anything created under Capitalism is probably morally repulsive on one level or another. I vote to get rid of it entirely, if we can only come up with a better solution. For now, I personally try to participate as little as possible in it.

justinator 3y ago
Disagree with me all you want, but if you reply with a point, I'll be honest with a counterpoint.

serf 3y ago

>Your smartphone was still made by child labor. that's mighty presumptuous. and listing other child labor profiteers has a point : it illustrates that perhaps we should probably look for and fix the root causes of child labor rather than punishing a single perpetrator.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]