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Absolutely none of this justifies blaming every violent crime on homeless people, as HN is quick to do. SF is not an outlier, nationally, in terms of the propor

Absolutely none of this justifies blaming every violent crime on homeless people, as HN is quick to do. SF is not an outlier, nationally, in terms of the proportion of violent crimes perpetrated by people known to their victims.

Alupis 4y ago
> in terms of the proportion of violent crimes perpetrated by people known to their victims The factoid you're trying to cite is specifically about murder. Most homicides are indeed committed by someone the victim knew. SF's homicide rate isn't out of proportion with other big cities. It's crime rate is, however, and the overwhelming majority of crime being committed there right now happens to be from homeless transients. The types that break into your car to sell whatever they can get a hold of for more drugs. Crime is severely under-reported in SF. The police are powerless to do anything to a transient - they will not pay a fine or appear in court anyway after all. So the system negatively feeds into itself - false crime statistics, which gives the politicians cover to claim crime is down. Just go there yourself... you can see it so very readily. The cleanliness is another related issue. SF needs to get itself back in order. It's driving people away.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  This is what I'm talking about: this is a thread about a violent crime, and you're talking about quality of life. This has nothing to do with the tragedy at hand, and conflating the two only serves to demonize society's most needy. If you find that SF's quality of life doesn't suit you, then don't live there. I don't.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    > then don't live there. I don't We know. There has been a mass exodus from the area for various reasons - among which is the crime and cleanliness issue. How many HNer's have moved away and are never coming back? SF is facing a looming income issue since so many high earners have left the area. This will contribute to it's decline even further. Safety and cleanliness are not what I would dismiss as quality of life issues. Those are basic needs.
    - kevviiinn 4y ago
      >How many HNer's have moved away and are never coming back? I've seen ~3 or 4 people mention it
a_bonobo 4y ago
You're right, here's some data to support your point: >In 2020, the reported violent crime rate in S.F. was 21% below the average of 20 most populous cities other than San Francisco for which there was full 2020 data available. Meanwhile, the city’s property crime rate was 41% above average. >San Francisco’s violent crime rate has declined significantly since the early 1990s – a trend that is consistent with the rest of the state. Anti-gun violence initiatives in S.F. may have contributed to this trend. https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/fixing-san-francisco-problems/crime https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/fixing-san-francis... >“We found little relationship between encampments and nearly all forms of reported property crime,” Lanfear said, “but a very strong link between reported property crime and complaints about homelessness.” https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/poll-crime-and-homelessness-are-linked-in-the-minds-of-san-franciscans/ https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/poll-crime-and-homel...
- gitfan86 4y ago
  If you have no problem living near homeless encampments, that is totally fine, you are welcome to live wherever you want. Personally, I don't like living in a city where I walk past people pooping on the sidewalk. Which I've witnessed in SF. If you have statistics that people pooping on the sidewalk on the middle of the day happens 20% less often in SF than other cities, then great, I guess I'm just lucky to have not seen that in NYC,BOS,ATL.
- Alupis 4y ago
  It's important to note just how under-reported SF's crime is. The police don't do anything (for many reasons) so citizens don't bother reporting. So, if reported crime is already 41% higher than average - we can only imagine what the true figure is.

Alupis 4y ago

> in terms of the proportion of violent crimes perpetrated by people known to their victims The factoid you're trying to cite is specifically about murder. Most homicides are indeed committed by someone the victim knew. SF's homicide rate isn't out of proportion with other big cities. It's crime rate is, however, and the overwhelming majority of crime being committed there right now happens to be from homeless transients. The types that break into your car to sell whatever they can get a hold of for more drugs. Crime is severely under-reported in SF. The police are powerless to do anything to a transient - they will not pay a fine or appear in court anyway after all. So the system negatively feeds into itself - false crime statistics, which gives the politicians cover to claim crime is down. Just go there yourself... you can see it so very readily. The cleanliness is another related issue. SF needs to get itself back in order. It's driving people away.

woodruffw 4y ago
This is what I'm talking about: this is a thread about a violent crime, and you're talking about quality of life. This has nothing to do with the tragedy at hand, and conflating the two only serves to demonize society's most needy. If you find that SF's quality of life doesn't suit you, then don't live there. I don't.
- Alupis 4y ago
  > then don't live there. I don't We know. There has been a mass exodus from the area for various reasons - among which is the crime and cleanliness issue. How many HNer's have moved away and are never coming back? SF is facing a looming income issue since so many high earners have left the area. This will contribute to it's decline even further. Safety and cleanliness are not what I would dismiss as quality of life issues. Those are basic needs.
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    >How many HNer's have moved away and are never coming back? I've seen ~3 or 4 people mention it

a_bonobo 4y ago

You're right, here's some data to support your point: >In 2020, the reported violent crime rate in S.F. was 21% below the average of 20 most populous cities other than San Francisco for which there was full 2020 data available. Meanwhile, the city’s property crime rate was 41% above average. >San Francisco’s violent crime rate has declined significantly since the early 1990s – a trend that is consistent with the rest of the state. Anti-gun violence initiatives in S.F. may have contributed to this trend. https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/fixing-san-francisco-problems/crime https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/fixing-san-francis... >“We found little relationship between encampments and nearly all forms of reported property crime,” Lanfear said, “but a very strong link between reported property crime and complaints about homelessness.” https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/poll-crime-and-homelessness-are-linked-in-the-minds-of-san-franciscans/ https://sfstandard.com/criminal-justice/poll-crime-and-homel...

gitfan86 4y ago
If you have no problem living near homeless encampments, that is totally fine, you are welcome to live wherever you want. Personally, I don't like living in a city where I walk past people pooping on the sidewalk. Which I've witnessed in SF. If you have statistics that people pooping on the sidewalk on the middle of the day happens 20% less often in SF than other cities, then great, I guess I'm just lucky to have not seen that in NYC,BOS,ATL.
Alupis 4y ago
It's important to note just how under-reported SF's crime is. The police don't do anything (for many reasons) so citizens don't bother reporting. So, if reported crime is already 41% higher than average - we can only imagine what the true figure is.