4 ms·

I get it, it’s hard to give up that juicy meat that gives us pleasure and it’s easier to just blissfully ignore scientific facts, ignore the suffering of animal

I get it, it’s hard to give up that juicy meat that gives us pleasure and it’s easier to just blissfully ignore scientific facts, ignore the suffering of animals, ignore biodiversty destruction and instead believe in pseudo science or Reddit headlines like ‘plants scream in pain’. But hard things are worth doing.

justinclift 4y ago
You are the person ignoring facts about suffering you are causing. "Oh, plants don't have nociceptors. Therefore I'm free to abuse them as they can't feel pain!" Well duh, plants evolved a different system to sense the world and communicate. Yet it's clearly more convenient for you to just ignore that, so you spout shit at others, yet not look at your own behaviour. How about fixing yourself first?
- barbazoo 4y ago
  Are you seriously arguing that plants feel pain the way animals/humans do?
  - justinclift 4y ago
    How can you not recognise that? :)
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  You don't seem to be interested in a meaningful debate and you're assuming I'm one of the 'holier than though' crowd. I know my lifestyle has a high carbon footprint and when I used to eat meat that it caused suffering and contributed highly to environmental destruction. I'm trying to reduce all that as much as possible - that's the goal. Total avoidance will become easier over time through technical advancements and more sustainable lifestyles. I looked at my own behavior, looked at scientific findings [0] regarding industrial animal farming and the damage it causes and more importantly looked at the behavior of animals when they are about to be slaughtered. They experience fear... in the words of Carl Sagan... they are too much like us. Even farmers say about their animals 'there is someone in there'. If you have or had pets like dogs, cats etc you know they are sentient, have feelings, mood swings and want to experience joy. Other animals like cows, pigs, chicken etc experience the same - they are not just some meat bags. So why raise and breed Billions of these animals that will only suffer and be treated horribly - only because we want ta burger? The single best thing an individual can do to reduce our environmental impact is to give up or reduce as much as possible the consumption of meat & dairy. The Oxford Uni researcher himself gave up meat & dairy after he concluded his study. So if you're open minded then I'd encourage you to have a look at all the links I already shared. [0] https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-06-01-new-estimates-environmental-cost-food https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-06-01-new-estimates-environme... P.S. Again if you need meat to survive because you live in a place where there is no other food, e.g. desert, Antarctica, jungle etc or because of medical reasons then ignore the above. But for most of us that's not the case.
  - justinclift 4y ago
    > You don't seem to be interested in a meaningful debate and you're assuming I'm one of the 'holier than though' crowd. That's pretty ironic, are you're yet again dismissing what I've said as if I'm joking. But no worries. Maybe some day you'll learn to consider other life forms in your calculations as well, instead of writing them off just because "they're different to me".
    - uxcolumbo 4y ago
      I think you're trolling. You said plants and fruits are 'literally screaming in pain'. I don't think you know what the words scream or literally mean. If you're serious about what you said please provide your evidence based sources that claim that plants and fruits are literally screaming in pain.
      - justinclift 4y ago
        Oh, you mean stuff like this? https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aau9813 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aau9813 There's only one person here trolling, and it's not me.
        uxcolumbo 4y ago
        Thanks. Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall. The abstract doesn't mention anything about plants or fruits literally screaming in pain. It seems this study is showing how plants react to damage - in particular how glutamate is used for signal transmission. I also just did an experiment. I took an Apple and cut it in two. I couldn't hear the apple literally scream in pain. And I'm not deaf. Do you have access to the full version? If so, does the full version talk about plants & fruits literally screaming in pain? Or can you point to any other sources that claim plants & fruits literally scream in pain like we or other animals do?

justinclift 4y ago

You are the person ignoring facts about suffering you are causing. "Oh, plants don't have nociceptors. Therefore I'm free to abuse them as they can't feel pain!" Well duh, plants evolved a different system to sense the world and communicate. Yet it's clearly more convenient for you to just ignore that, so you spout shit at others, yet not look at your own behaviour. How about fixing yourself first?

barbazoo 4y ago
Are you seriously arguing that plants feel pain the way animals/humans do?
- justinclift 4y ago
  How can you not recognise that? :)
uxcolumbo 4y ago
You don't seem to be interested in a meaningful debate and you're assuming I'm one of the 'holier than though' crowd. I know my lifestyle has a high carbon footprint and when I used to eat meat that it caused suffering and contributed highly to environmental destruction. I'm trying to reduce all that as much as possible - that's the goal. Total avoidance will become easier over time through technical advancements and more sustainable lifestyles. I looked at my own behavior, looked at scientific findings [0] regarding industrial animal farming and the damage it causes and more importantly looked at the behavior of animals when they are about to be slaughtered. They experience fear... in the words of Carl Sagan... they are too much like us. Even farmers say about their animals 'there is someone in there'. If you have or had pets like dogs, cats etc you know they are sentient, have feelings, mood swings and want to experience joy. Other animals like cows, pigs, chicken etc experience the same - they are not just some meat bags. So why raise and breed Billions of these animals that will only suffer and be treated horribly - only because we want ta burger? The single best thing an individual can do to reduce our environmental impact is to give up or reduce as much as possible the consumption of meat & dairy. The Oxford Uni researcher himself gave up meat & dairy after he concluded his study. So if you're open minded then I'd encourage you to have a look at all the links I already shared. [0] https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-06-01-new-estimates-environmental-cost-food https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-06-01-new-estimates-environme... P.S. Again if you need meat to survive because you live in a place where there is no other food, e.g. desert, Antarctica, jungle etc or because of medical reasons then ignore the above. But for most of us that's not the case.
- justinclift 4y ago
  > You don't seem to be interested in a meaningful debate and you're assuming I'm one of the 'holier than though' crowd. That's pretty ironic, are you're yet again dismissing what I've said as if I'm joking. But no worries. Maybe some day you'll learn to consider other life forms in your calculations as well, instead of writing them off just because "they're different to me".
  - uxcolumbo 4y ago
    I think you're trolling. You said plants and fruits are 'literally screaming in pain'. I don't think you know what the words scream or literally mean. If you're serious about what you said please provide your evidence based sources that claim that plants and fruits are literally screaming in pain.
    - justinclift 4y ago
      Oh, you mean stuff like this? https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aau9813 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aau9813 There's only one person here trolling, and it's not me.
      - uxcolumbo 4y ago
        Thanks. Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall. The abstract doesn't mention anything about plants or fruits literally screaming in pain. It seems this study is showing how plants react to damage - in particular how glutamate is used for signal transmission. I also just did an experiment. I took an Apple and cut it in two. I couldn't hear the apple literally scream in pain. And I'm not deaf. Do you have access to the full version? If so, does the full version talk about plants & fruits literally screaming in pain? Or can you point to any other sources that claim plants & fruits literally scream in pain like we or other animals do?