4 ms·

Is there a competing query strategy, technology, or approach to compete with SQL? Yes, it gets the job done but it's always felt kludgy.

by mikece 4y ago

nhumrich 4y ago
You mean, the ORM? Edgedb also is nice if you want a more object like model for your db.
- mind-blight 4y ago
  ORMs generally solve a different problem than the query language. In SQL, everything is a table (that's not 100% true, but it's close enough). So, joins still result in a flat list of records. ORMs solve the problem of translating a flat list of records into objects that have arrays of other objects. Some people also use them to avoid having to write SQL, but that's honestly a secondary feature. You can have a more modern query language that still results in tables
giovannibonetti 4y ago
There are some ideas based on Datalog, like this one: https://opensource.googleblog.com/2021/04/logica-organizing-your-data-queries.html https://opensource.googleblog.com/2021/04/logica-organizing-...
resonantjacket5 4y ago
I've read about edgedb in the past https://www.edgedb.com/blog/we-can-do-better-than-sql https://www.edgedb.com/blog/we-can-do-better-than-sql where they mainly changed the query language, underlying it still uses postgres. Though not sure how successful they've been.
fbdab103 4y ago
I really like what PRQL[0] is doing. Fixes a lot of the unfortunate SQL syntax. My impossible dream is that after years of language stability, Postgres could make it a first party query language. [0] https://prql-lang.org/ https://prql-lang.org/
- LeonenTheDK 4y ago
  Wow, this looks like it fixes a lot of the minor gripes I have with SQL, thanks for mentioning it. It feels way less cludgy and "modernized" compared to SQL.
- iudqnolq 4y ago
  That reminds me of the Ecto DSL.
- TylerE 4y ago
  Maybe as a baby step we could just get legal trailing commas
  - candiddevmike 4y ago
    Or force the big RDBMS to use the same syntax like SQL was intended to be, so I don't have to reach for an ORM or maintain different flavors of the same query. As an aside, if someone knows a tool that reliably converts PostgreSQL queries to something like SQLite, please share!
    - alserio 4y ago
      haven't really tried for that transform but have a look at https://www.jooq.org/translate/ https://www.jooq.org/translate/
    - TylerE 4y ago
      Not sure how such a tool could possibly exist, given all the functionality of Postgres that SQLite simply lacks.
      - steve_gh 4y ago
        You could ask ChatGPT to do this sort of conversion
        TylerE 4y ago
abh123 4y ago
Spark dataframes in Scala seem to combine the best parts of relational queries with at least some typing. https://spark.apache.org/docs/1.6.1/api/java/org/apache/spark/sql/DataFrame.html https://spark.apache.org/docs/1.6.1/api/java/org/apache/spar...
genuine_smiles 4y ago
KQL https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/data-explorer/kusto/query/ https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/data-explorer/kusto/... Hers a simple example: StormEvents | where StartTime between (datetime(2007-11-01) .. datetime(2007-12-01)) | where State == "FLORIDA" | count
thejosh 4y ago
I really like "modern SQL". Snowflake has some great functions and ideas, I really hope other databases take some of their ideas. It also has its pain points (ex Oracle.. so some notions they have about databases like NULLs is a bit meh). Paired with dbt makes data quite fun
mamcx 4y ago
There are many, but most never go further than SQL (ie: Are just a "query" language). I'm trying to do it for a "general purpose" language where array + relational + functional + imperative can work together: https://tablam.org https://tablam.org --- One of the biggest damage that SQL has caused is that SQL is so bad as being a programming language, is not good enough DSL and is weirdly the only game in town, that many can't imagine that the relational model allows to do programming like every other model, just richer in "intrinsic" operators. This is the deal with RDBMS. Is like: "Everyone implement a wild flavor of a VM, sometimes JVM, .NET VM, Web Assembly, eBPF, etc, but all use a slight variation of Java for their syntax" Is like the reverse of how things are done!
carlineng 4y ago
I've written quite a bit about a new query language called Malloy: https://carlineng.com/?postid=malloy-intro#blog https://carlineng.com/?postid=malloy-intro#blog It's a semantic layer with an integrated query language that makes a ton of improvements on SQL. Full disclosure, I actually joined the team a couple of weeks ago :)
yayitswei 4y ago
Datalag is great! I use it every day in production. https://www.learndatalogtoday.org/ https://www.learndatalogtoday.org/
- skc 4y ago
  An unfortunate typo.
Breza 4y ago
R's dbplyr package lets you use the amazing dplyr syntax to query SQL databases.

Is there a competing query strategy, technology, or approach to compete with SQL? Yes, it gets the job done but it's always felt kludgy.

by mikece 4y ago

Is there a competing query strategy, technology, or approach to compete with SQL? Yes, it gets the job done but it's always felt kludgy.

nhumrich 4y ago

You mean, the ORM? Edgedb also is nice if you want a more object like model for your db.

mind-blight 4y ago
ORMs generally solve a different problem than the query language. In SQL, everything is a table (that's not 100% true, but it's close enough). So, joins still result in a flat list of records. ORMs solve the problem of translating a flat list of records into objects that have arrays of other objects. Some people also use them to avoid having to write SQL, but that's honestly a secondary feature. You can have a more modern query language that still results in tables

giovannibonetti 4y ago

There are some ideas based on Datalog, like this one: https://opensource.googleblog.com/2021/04/logica-organizing-your-data-queries.html https://opensource.googleblog.com/2021/04/logica-organizing-...

resonantjacket5 4y ago

I've read about edgedb in the past https://www.edgedb.com/blog/we-can-do-better-than-sql https://www.edgedb.com/blog/we-can-do-better-than-sql where they mainly changed the query language, underlying it still uses postgres. Though not sure how successful they've been.

fbdab103 4y ago

I really like what PRQL[0] is doing. Fixes a lot of the unfortunate SQL syntax. My impossible dream is that after years of language stability, Postgres could make it a first party query language. [0] https://prql-lang.org/ https://prql-lang.org/

LeonenTheDK 4y ago
Wow, this looks like it fixes a lot of the minor gripes I have with SQL, thanks for mentioning it. It feels way less cludgy and "modernized" compared to SQL.
iudqnolq 4y ago
That reminds me of the Ecto DSL.
TylerE 4y ago
Maybe as a baby step we could just get legal trailing commas
- candiddevmike 4y ago
  Or force the big RDBMS to use the same syntax like SQL was intended to be, so I don't have to reach for an ORM or maintain different flavors of the same query. As an aside, if someone knows a tool that reliably converts PostgreSQL queries to something like SQLite, please share!
  - alserio 4y ago
    haven't really tried for that transform but have a look at https://www.jooq.org/translate/ https://www.jooq.org/translate/
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Not sure how such a tool could possibly exist, given all the functionality of Postgres that SQLite simply lacks.
    - steve_gh 4y ago
      You could ask ChatGPT to do this sort of conversion
      - TylerE 4y ago

abh123 4y ago

Spark dataframes in Scala seem to combine the best parts of relational queries with at least some typing. https://spark.apache.org/docs/1.6.1/api/java/org/apache/spark/sql/DataFrame.html https://spark.apache.org/docs/1.6.1/api/java/org/apache/spar...

genuine_smiles 4y ago

KQL https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/data-explorer/kusto/query/ https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/data-explorer/kusto/... Hers a simple example: StormEvents | where StartTime between (datetime(2007-11-01) .. datetime(2007-12-01)) | where State == "FLORIDA" | count

thejosh 4y ago

I really like "modern SQL". Snowflake has some great functions and ideas, I really hope other databases take some of their ideas. It also has its pain points (ex Oracle.. so some notions they have about databases like NULLs is a bit meh). Paired with dbt makes data quite fun

mamcx 4y ago

There are many, but most never go further than SQL (ie: Are just a "query" language). I'm trying to do it for a "general purpose" language where array + relational + functional + imperative can work together: https://tablam.org https://tablam.org --- One of the biggest damage that SQL has caused is that SQL is so bad as being a programming language, is not good enough DSL and is weirdly the only game in town, that many can't imagine that the relational model allows to do programming like every other model, just richer in "intrinsic" operators. This is the deal with RDBMS. Is like: "Everyone implement a wild flavor of a VM, sometimes JVM, .NET VM, Web Assembly, eBPF, etc, but all use a slight variation of Java for their syntax" Is like the reverse of how things are done!

carlineng 4y ago

I've written quite a bit about a new query language called Malloy: https://carlineng.com/?postid=malloy-intro#blog https://carlineng.com/?postid=malloy-intro#blog It's a semantic layer with an integrated query language that makes a ton of improvements on SQL. Full disclosure, I actually joined the team a couple of weeks ago :)

yayitswei 4y ago

Datalag is great! I use it every day in production. https://www.learndatalogtoday.org/ https://www.learndatalogtoday.org/

skc 4y ago
An unfortunate typo.

Breza 4y ago

R's dbplyr package lets you use the amazing dplyr syntax to query SQL databases.