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This is a completely different piece of technology, solving a different (but related) problem for different people in a different environment. Those industrial

This is a completely different piece of technology, solving a different (but related) problem for different people in a different environment. Those industrial robots don't drive around an office building with people around. They can't be repurposed to solve other problems. These Google robots have already been doing other tasks around the MTV campus (for demonstration and research purposes, not yet practically useful).

Alupis 4y ago
Until the day we stop requiring humans to pre-sort garbage, we cannot actually get serious about recycling. And no, little robots driving around google's campus is not going to change the world - it's a fun novelty. We need more of the sorting machines linked above. Everything into a single bin, and let the processing plant determine what best to do with it. Not everything that goes into a recycle bin actually gets recycled, etc. Let the pros handle it. Recycling/Composting needs to be 100% transparent to your average person for it to actually work.
- mgraczyk 4y ago
  Sure, but my point is that this research isn't about solving the recycling problem. It's about demonstrating a reinforcement learning solution to a difficult task in a difficult real world "everyday" environment.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  I think this is taking things too far. A system where humans split garbage from recycling, and then potential split recycling into e.g. corrugated cardboard, glass and everything else can work just fine. How do I know this? It's the system we have where I live, and as far as I can tell, it works better than most others. Contamination remains an issue, but that's likely to be even more true if humans do no separation at all.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    > A system where humans split garbage from recycling, and then potential split recycling into e.g. corrugated cardboard, glass and everything else can work just fine. If it's done perfectly every single time - sure. But these are humans we're discussing... It's silly to even have to think about if something can be recycled or not. Gotta look for that recycle number on the package first - ah, this seemingly regular plastic bottle cannot be recycled after all! Pizza box with a small amount of oil stain? Nope, can't recycle that either. Sorting machines are clearly the only reliable way to manage waste. Everything else is a distraction meant to make you feel good about doing your part, even though the reality is you probably did some of it wrong and half of the stuff won't be recycled anyway.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
      You really do not want to mix garbage and (potential) recycling. Fine, throw anything remotely potentially recyclable together (and have it post-sorted), but not cooking fat, diapers, dog shit, and more.
      - traverseda 4y ago
        So dry and wet garbage?
        TylerE 4y ago
        The problem is 90% of proper will think that a grease stained pizza box is dry.
    - ryandrake 4y ago
      I agree. Any system that requires cooperative, collective action from un-incentivized humans is doomed. All you need are a significant number of uncooperative and/or antagonistic people, and the system will fail. A lot of people are just apathetic and will toss their junk into whatever bin is closest, regardless of what's supposed to be in it. Also, there are a fair number of people who will go out of their way to put things in the wrong bin. I knew someone who proudly admitted he would dump old rotten eggs, motor oil, and poo into his recycling bin because "Recycling is authoritarian government overreach by the liberals." You just can't have nice things, because of people. Look at how every country's COVID strategy depended on cooperative, altruistic, collective action from ordinary people. This strategy failed everywhere it was tried.
- mdaniel 4y ago
  > Until the day we stop requiring humans to pre-sort garbage, we cannot actually get serious about recycling. I wonder if if would be more economical to have robots to pre-sort locally, before it enters the stream? Because if I had a big bucket o' refuse that a local robot would then check the /5\ codes or whatever and sort locally, it would have up to 6 days to do that and thus wouldn't have any hard realtime requirements Failure scenarios are always present, as is keeping the poor thing clean, but it could still end up being more economical IF the streams really are a source of value, and not -- as I am increasingly starting to believe -- just a sham by the plastics industry to make one think recycling exists

Alupis 4y ago

Until the day we stop requiring humans to pre-sort garbage, we cannot actually get serious about recycling. And no, little robots driving around google's campus is not going to change the world - it's a fun novelty. We need more of the sorting machines linked above. Everything into a single bin, and let the processing plant determine what best to do with it. Not everything that goes into a recycle bin actually gets recycled, etc. Let the pros handle it. Recycling/Composting needs to be 100% transparent to your average person for it to actually work.

mgraczyk 4y ago
Sure, but my point is that this research isn't about solving the recycling problem. It's about demonstrating a reinforcement learning solution to a difficult task in a difficult real world "everyday" environment.
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
I think this is taking things too far. A system where humans split garbage from recycling, and then potential split recycling into e.g. corrugated cardboard, glass and everything else can work just fine. How do I know this? It's the system we have where I live, and as far as I can tell, it works better than most others. Contamination remains an issue, but that's likely to be even more true if humans do no separation at all.
- Alupis 4y ago
  > A system where humans split garbage from recycling, and then potential split recycling into e.g. corrugated cardboard, glass and everything else can work just fine. If it's done perfectly every single time - sure. But these are humans we're discussing... It's silly to even have to think about if something can be recycled or not. Gotta look for that recycle number on the package first - ah, this seemingly regular plastic bottle cannot be recycled after all! Pizza box with a small amount of oil stain? Nope, can't recycle that either. Sorting machines are clearly the only reliable way to manage waste. Everything else is a distraction meant to make you feel good about doing your part, even though the reality is you probably did some of it wrong and half of the stuff won't be recycled anyway.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    You really do not want to mix garbage and (potential) recycling. Fine, throw anything remotely potentially recyclable together (and have it post-sorted), but not cooking fat, diapers, dog shit, and more.
    - traverseda 4y ago
      So dry and wet garbage?
      - TylerE 4y ago
        The problem is 90% of proper will think that a grease stained pizza box is dry.
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    I agree. Any system that requires cooperative, collective action from un-incentivized humans is doomed. All you need are a significant number of uncooperative and/or antagonistic people, and the system will fail. A lot of people are just apathetic and will toss their junk into whatever bin is closest, regardless of what's supposed to be in it. Also, there are a fair number of people who will go out of their way to put things in the wrong bin. I knew someone who proudly admitted he would dump old rotten eggs, motor oil, and poo into his recycling bin because "Recycling is authoritarian government overreach by the liberals." You just can't have nice things, because of people. Look at how every country's COVID strategy depended on cooperative, altruistic, collective action from ordinary people. This strategy failed everywhere it was tried.
mdaniel 4y ago
> Until the day we stop requiring humans to pre-sort garbage, we cannot actually get serious about recycling. I wonder if if would be more economical to have robots to pre-sort locally, before it enters the stream? Because if I had a big bucket o' refuse that a local robot would then check the /5\ codes or whatever and sort locally, it would have up to 6 days to do that and thus wouldn't have any hard realtime requirements Failure scenarios are always present, as is keeping the poor thing clean, but it could still end up being more economical IF the streams really are a source of value, and not -- as I am increasingly starting to believe -- just a sham by the plastics industry to make one think recycling exists