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Countries like Canada seem to think importing cheap labor from other countries is the way to keep growing and not have to make adult decisions about how to deal

Countries like Canada seem to think importing cheap labor from other countries is the way to keep growing and not have to make adult decisions about how to deal with a declining birth rate. That seems to be the prevailing wisdom for developed countries and everything else is called xenophobic. The main irony I see is that the biggest proponents are companies, but they frame it as a cultural issue, like how could people be against immigration, when they really just want population growth and wage suppression. It will be interesting to see which policy makes more sense in the long run.

ivalm 4y ago
Immigration makes sense as you tend to preferentially select the more capable/active people, which is generally the kind of populace you want.
- Grum9 4y ago
  Well the moron thats running Canada is gonna end up with the homeless kind at this rate, he sees immigration as an absolute good its just he hasnt given any thought as to where hes gonna put them all https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230322/dq230322f-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230322/dq230... over 1 million in a single year, thats like if 8.5 million just showed up in the US creating a new New York.
rospaya 4y ago
As far as I know there is no way to increase birth rates. No formula, no payout, no policy that will guarantee that a country will have more births, except maybe a bump.
- joyeuse6701 4y ago
  Abortion bans is one attempt.
  - rospaya 4y ago
    Romania shows that it can only create a temporary effect. Also women start dying.
- Bran_son 4y ago
  How can you say that when birth rates vary so widely with time and place? Even just in the modern developed world, couldn't we copy whatever Israel is doing [1]? It may not be easy or guaranteed, but we don't need to go as high as Israel's 3.1 - the replacement level of 2.1 would suffice. [1] Israel has been in a constant baby boom since independence, with the highest fertility rate in the OECD at 3.1 children per woman. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boom#Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boom#Israel
  - tshaddox 4y ago
    That commenter probably means that there is no known reliable way solution that generalizes to many diverse countries. Pointing out the existence of a country with high birth rates isn’t a dispute of that claim, since as far as I know “just become exactly like Israel” isn’t really an option.
    - Bran_son 4y ago
      It's a dispute of the implied claim that a developed nation with women's rights can't have high birth rates. > known reliable way solution that generalizes Why all these qualifiers? It doesn't have to be reliable or general - individual countries can each have their own approach, that only works after lots of tweaking, and even just intermittently, as long as it time-averages to replacement level. And it won't become known unless we look for it - more than the occasional sporadic attempt by a government that gets decried as racist and sexist for their efforts [1]. > exactly like Israel Why "exactly"? If someone pointed to Japan when searching for solutions to reduce heart disease or medical costs in the US, would you also say "become exactly like Japan" isn't an option? Many countries similar to Israel have low fertility, while many very dissimilar ones have high fertility. Clearly, being exactly like Israel isn't necessary. [1] 'Baby machines': eastern Europe's answer to depopulation - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/04/baby-bonuses-fit-the-nationalist-agenda-but-do-they-work https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/04/baby-bonuses-f...
      - thfuran 4y ago
- version_five 4y ago
  I wasn't arguing for that, I meant accepting that population would fall.
Jack000 4y ago
What is the "adult decision" Canadians should be making? I'm not sure what the proposed solution is supposed to be here. If anything, the xenophobic narrative is that the immigrants are too rich, driving up housing prices in Vancouver and Toronto.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  To shrink as a society. To abandon a need for constant growth -- those stock prices gotta keep going up! And they are driving up housing prices. New arrivals to Canada aren't moving to SK, or MB -- most of them aren't from cold countries and stay entirely in the southern most cities -- the GTA and VAN, and to a far lesser extent, Calgary and Edmonton.
tshaddox 4y ago
I thought Canada imports wealthy people who pay taxes and buy all the houses.

ivalm 4y ago

Immigration makes sense as you tend to preferentially select the more capable/active people, which is generally the kind of populace you want.

Grum9 4y ago
Well the moron thats running Canada is gonna end up with the homeless kind at this rate, he sees immigration as an absolute good its just he hasnt given any thought as to where hes gonna put them all https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230322/dq230322f-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230322/dq230... over 1 million in a single year, thats like if 8.5 million just showed up in the US creating a new New York.

rospaya 4y ago

As far as I know there is no way to increase birth rates. No formula, no payout, no policy that will guarantee that a country will have more births, except maybe a bump.

joyeuse6701 4y ago
Abortion bans is one attempt.
- rospaya 4y ago
  Romania shows that it can only create a temporary effect. Also women start dying.
Bran_son 4y ago
How can you say that when birth rates vary so widely with time and place? Even just in the modern developed world, couldn't we copy whatever Israel is doing [1]? It may not be easy or guaranteed, but we don't need to go as high as Israel's 3.1 - the replacement level of 2.1 would suffice. [1] Israel has been in a constant baby boom since independence, with the highest fertility rate in the OECD at 3.1 children per woman. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boom#Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boom#Israel
- tshaddox 4y ago
  That commenter probably means that there is no known reliable way solution that generalizes to many diverse countries. Pointing out the existence of a country with high birth rates isn’t a dispute of that claim, since as far as I know “just become exactly like Israel” isn’t really an option.
  - Bran_son 4y ago
    It's a dispute of the implied claim that a developed nation with women's rights can't have high birth rates. > known reliable way solution that generalizes Why all these qualifiers? It doesn't have to be reliable or general - individual countries can each have their own approach, that only works after lots of tweaking, and even just intermittently, as long as it time-averages to replacement level. And it won't become known unless we look for it - more than the occasional sporadic attempt by a government that gets decried as racist and sexist for their efforts [1]. > exactly like Israel Why "exactly"? If someone pointed to Japan when searching for solutions to reduce heart disease or medical costs in the US, would you also say "become exactly like Japan" isn't an option? Many countries similar to Israel have low fertility, while many very dissimilar ones have high fertility. Clearly, being exactly like Israel isn't necessary. [1] 'Baby machines': eastern Europe's answer to depopulation - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/04/baby-bonuses-fit-the-nationalist-agenda-but-do-they-work https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/04/baby-bonuses-f...
    - thfuran 4y ago
version_five 4y ago
I wasn't arguing for that, I meant accepting that population would fall.

Jack000 4y ago

What is the "adult decision" Canadians should be making? I'm not sure what the proposed solution is supposed to be here. If anything, the xenophobic narrative is that the immigrants are too rich, driving up housing prices in Vancouver and Toronto.

red-iron-pine 3y ago
To shrink as a society. To abandon a need for constant growth -- those stock prices gotta keep going up! And they are driving up housing prices. New arrivals to Canada aren't moving to SK, or MB -- most of them aren't from cold countries and stay entirely in the southern most cities -- the GTA and VAN, and to a far lesser extent, Calgary and Edmonton.

tshaddox 4y ago

I thought Canada imports wealthy people who pay taxes and buy all the houses.