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Could Ice Cream Possibly Be Good for You?
- ratg13 4y agoToo lazy to create an archive link from my phone but this quote has me interested to read the rest. >Among diabetics, eating half a cup of ice cream a day was associated with a lower risk of heart problems
- wskinner 4y agoCompared to what? Eating a pint?
- atleastoptimal 4y agoPerhaps that may be the confounding variable. Anyone capable of eating only a half cup of ice cream has 99th percentile willpower which likely translates to other healthy habits.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago> Anyone capable of eating only a half cup of ice cream has 99th percentile willpower which likely translates to other healthy habits. They're diabetics. You might be surprised how many people are able to comply with the directive "don't overdo this, or you'll die a horrible death". Though you shouldn't be.
- James_Henry 4y agoWho is telling type 2 diabetics that they are going to die a horrible death from eating ice cream?
- James_Henry 4y agoThat's not how this works
- James_Henry 4y agoCompared to none. But the article doesn't really say that it is actually good for diabetes. It's an association.
- wskinner 4y agoThe article didn't link to the paper (or if it did, I wasn't able to find it). If you're basing this claim on the original paper, can you share a link?
- James_Henry 4y agoHere is the relevant table. It seems that it's not compared to none, but rather compared to less than one serving per month. https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-014-0215-1/tables/5 https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1291...
- nordsieck 4y agoThe key questions are: what is the study size, and what is the effect size?
- albatrosstrophy 4y agoI would appreciate an archive link though
- consumer451 4y agohttps://archive.is/SYiLH https://archive.is/SYiLH
- atleastoptimal 4y agoWouldn't just drinking milk be healthier?
- James_Henry 4y agoWhy? The whole point of the article is that people are making assumptions based off of common wisdom and we only trust the data when it seems to confirm our assumptions. Also, ice cream is pretty different than milk.
- atleastoptimal 4y agoThe issue is ice cream is a mixture of ingredients. It has cream, sugar, milk, and sometimes eggs. Seeing if there's an effect with just one of the ingredients would offer greater specificity.
- munk-a 4y agoYour mood has a strong effect on your health - stress is a huge source of deaths in the US (probably the largest by far but I have no studies to link). If a half a cup of ice cream significantly improves your mood and takes you out of depression then yea - it's probably pretty good. Please also be aware that if we're discussing the American diet there are plenty of folks who drink coke like water - ice cream has a pretty equal amount of sugar by volume of coke and the lack of excessive amounts of sodium means that there's less of a drive to over consume it. Sweets eaten in reasonable quantities can be part of a healthy diet to maintain weight - though generally for weight loss you'll want to cut out as much sugar as you can or find better sources for it since our bodies are terrible at processing it. 1. https://www.coca-colacompany.com/au/brands/coca-cola https://www.coca-colacompany.com/au/brands/coca-cola 10.6g per 1/2 cup (ish) vs. https://smartlabel.unileverusa.com/077567274731-0001-en-US/index.html https://smartlabel.unileverusa.com/077567274731-0001-en-US/i... - 19g per 2/3s of a cup
- James_Henry 4y agoI'm pretty sure there's more than mood going on here. Why is there not a "soda effect"?
- nathanaldensr 4y agoBLoH
- eajakobsen 4y agohttps://archive.ph/SYiLH https://archive.ph/SYiLH
- zabzonk 4y agothe things that make us happy make us wise https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/518635 https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/518635
- smegsicle 4y agothe opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false the opposite of a great truth is also true 'icecream is good for you' is a Great Truth
- fsckboy 4y agohttps://archive.ph/SYiLH https://archive.ph/SYiLH Could ice cream possibly be bad for you? It's made from a number of completely natural healthy ingredients, organic in every sense. People shouldn't in general consume too much sugar too often (risk of type II diabetes). If you're too fat you should try to get less fat. Eating a lot of ice cream is not going to help you there, but otherwise it's going to be very good for you. If it was the only thing you ate, it should work better than many other single ingredient diets.
- James_Henry 4y agoWhy is eating a lot of ice cream necessarily going to not help you lose weight though? Also, does sugar, particularly when it is eaten with the other ingredients in ice cream, actually increase the risk of type II diabetes? I think we have no proof and the article is making that point.
- astrange 4y agoSugar certainly increases your risk of type 2 diabetes. Isn't it the entire risk? Ice cream may reduce it, but I'd expect ice cream with less sugar would be more effective. (Depending on what it's replaced with of course.)
- James_Henry 4y agoI wouldn't be surprised if lower sugar ice cream is more effective (if there is a real, meaningful ice cream effect), but I think there is a lot more than just sugar leading to diabetes, and I don't think it's clear exactly how sugar is leading to diabetes. Is it because it's causing visceral fat? Is it directly causing gut dysbiosis?
- overthrow 4y agoI'd probably eat a lot more ice cream if it had maybe 20% the amount of sugar. Every so often I buy a pint and immediately regret it. It just gives me an uncomfortable sugar rush. I guess I'm getting old.
- James_Henry 4y agoYou need a good ice cream maker!
- munk-a 4y agoAn exceptionally good investment - especially when you have lactose dietary restrictions. Alternative milk ice creams cost an arm and a leg (in Canada at least) but are actually cheaper to make at home since milk prices are bananas.
- James_Henry 4y agoYes, and fresh sorbets will almost always beat what you can find in a store.
- overthrow 4y agoWhat a great idea, somehow I never even considered it. Any recommendations? Otherwise I know what I'm researching this weekend!
- matthewaveryusa 4y agoThe base model kitchen aid one is great. We upgraded to the Whynter ICM-200LS for the additional capacity. Technically we do frozen custards but it’s all the same — pure joy
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- QuercusMax 4y agoI've been thinking about buying a Ninja Creami - James Hoffman did a video using one and it looks super neat. It's basically the same as the Pacojet, whose patent has now expired - thinking a combination blender and drill press, which will mill down a frozen-solid cylinder of ice cream / sorbet into soft serve, within just 2-3 minutes. The advantage is obvious - you can prepare ahead of time and blend when you're ready to serve, and you can do several flavors in short succession if you have enough ice cream tubs.
- Aaronstotle 4y agoAs someone who eats 1 quart a week, no. I stopped eating as much ice cream when I stopped cycling as much, easy way to gain weight quickly. However, I noticed I could eat 1 tub per week without any weight gain if I averaged 50 miles per week (must be hilly though)
- 23B1 4y agoI was a Green Beret in 5th Special Forces Group out of Ft. Campbell. We had access to a program called THOR3 which managed our fitness, physical therapy, and diet – the entire program was staffed by former NFL coaches and dietitians – high end stuff (your tax dollars at work). I was rocked back on my heels one day when our dietician said the best possible recovery drink for us was chocolate milk. She made the case based on both the nutritional content, but also on the palatability, affordability, availability, and psychology of it. "You could make a protein shake but those taste like crap and you're going to be exhausted when you get home. Buy a jug of chocolate milk, slug it back, and drive on." I think there's also the added psychological 'relief' that comes with being able to indulge once in a while when you're spending the entire day being disciplined; like 'cheat days.'
- Wowfunhappy 4y agoSomething I find a bit weird in all of this... you'd think that the Ben & Jerries of the world would love nothing more than to signal boost this type of result. We hear all these stories about how food manufacturers have an inappropriate amount of control over research—but do they?
- James_Henry 4y agoMaybe ice cream companies have more scruples than yogurt companies. Or maybe it's more statistical literacy.
- smegsicle 4y agoben and jerrys is an antisemitic company. do not use them as a standin for other, less morally corrupt icecream manufacturers
- James_Henry 4y agoI think they are actually Jewish. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/opinion/ben-and-jerry-israel.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/opinion/ben-and-jerry-isr...
- the_af 4y agoThe takeaway for me is this: the "health benefits" of ice cream are not explored because the scientists "do not believe in them" (actual quote). This is powerful! The positive health effect measured was a little stronger than yogurt, yet it went underreported because yogurt has "better press" so to speak. Another interesting thing is that they thought the ice cream effect could be a case of "reverse causation" (people with diabetes or health problems drop ice cream, making it seem ice cream eaters are healthier), yet when taking this into consideration ice cream was still a bigger factor than yogurt! Yet subsequent studies that refer to these ones claim that the "ice cream effect" has been written off as a case of reverse causation when actually this didn't write it off at all! So in summary, scientists cannot explain why ice cream has the effect they measured, which is slightly stronger than yogurt, but it was kept out of the health food narrative simply because they suspect something is off -- but they cannot say what!
- bigtex 4y agoThe best keto ice cream I have found is Rebel ice cream. Good variety of flavors, no compromises on ingredients but is expensive. They also have a low carb chocolate milk that I have yet to try.
- James_Henry 4y agoI don't know if keto ice cream is good for diabetes.
- astrange 4y agoI submitted this because of 1. the lesson that correlation is not causation (except of course, here it might be) 2. because I was hoping someone would explain the scientist's hot take that ice cream is healthier than bread
- James_Henry 4y agoHaha, I can explain (2): they are a nutrition scientist! In all seriousness, they precede that quote by saying: "it’s got fat, it’s got protein, it’s got vitamins." So I think it's the comparative lack of these things in bread that he is concerned with.
- notJim 4y agoThe bias shown in this article is pretty stunning. These "scientists" have fairly clear evidence that ice cream may have a health benefit, and yet they completely refuse to accept it because it runs counter to their intuition. Anyone who has followed a bit of scientific history knows that counter-intuitive data has often led to breakthroughs. Given how shoddy much of "nutrition science" is, it seems like scientists ought to be looking for such breakthroughs, not denying them. I also thought this was quite a tell: > His 2002 study found that overweight and obese people reported eating fewer dairy-based desserts than other people. “I don’t believe that the heavier people consume less desserts,” he said. “I believe they underreport more.” Or maybe, overweight and obese people eat fewer desserts because they know (or think they know) that desserts make you fat? It's like that old trope that you never see thin people drinking diet soda. And especially if they're switching from desserts to things that are counter-intuitively less healthy (skipping dessert, but eating more of an unhealthy main, for example), it could even comport with the data these "scientists" are choosing to ignore.
- tailspin2019 4y agoI'm surprised there's no mention of temperature here, unless I missed it. Could there be a parallel with some of the purported benefits of "cold exposure" eg. cold showers, ice baths etc? Does consuming a frozen food trigger some sort of mild shock response along similar lines? (Warning: I'm just an internet moron trying to connect dots..)
- bell-cot 4y agoSounds plausible to me. If your research grant comes through from the ADA ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dairy_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dairy_Association ) and you need another subject for the "firm" or "spoon soft" group, feel free to drop me a line.
- tailspin2019 4y agoAbsolutely.