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A few factors to consider: - Animals have pain receptors like we do. Richard Dawkins even thinks animals feel pain more severely than we do. - Feeding ourselv

A few factors to consider: - Animals have pain receptors like we do. Richard Dawkins even thinks animals feel pain more severely than we do. - Feeding ourselves with animal products requires multiple times more resources than sticking to a mostly plant based diet. It produces more green house gases - not something we should be doing during the climate crisis where the IPCC is urging the world to limit global heating to 1.5C to 2.0C. Currently we are on a path that's above that with catastrophic consequences if we don't act and reverse this trend. - Animal factory farms create tons of pollution causing biosphere destruction - Humans in modern societies don't need meat to survive Given the above, is it rational to continue this practice of killing Billions of animals each year just to satisfy our taste pleasure? This ex special forces guy put it best: https://youtu.be/BUMGBwgGYWw?t=100 https://youtu.be/BUMGBwgGYWw?t=100

trollerator23 4y ago
Sure it is. Just tax it or something.
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  Can you provide more details why supporting an industry that is destroying our biosphere is rational?
  - trollerator23 4y ago
    Excuse me? Because I like eating delicious beef. How is that "irrational" ? I'll repeat: I like eating steak, and I am willing to pay for it. What's destroying the biosphere is too many humans.
    - uxcolumbo 4y ago
      That isn’t rational - supporting large scale animal agriculture which has been scientifically shown requires more resources and creates more environmental damage than a plant based food systems which are more sustainable. Why would choose something that creates more damage just because it tastes delicious. Why not choose something else that is delicious but gentler to the environment and doesn’t require animals to suffer? Why is it ok to enslave, be cruel and kill a cow just for mouth pleasure, when most of us don’t need to eat animals anymore to survive? If more ppl would be completely or mostly plant based our current population would be more sustainable.
      - trollerator23 3y ago
        Because I like it. Because most humans like it. We have it in our genes. End of the story.
        uxcolumbo 3y ago
        So because you like the taste of animal flesh it's OK to torture and kill them and in the process also inflict more harm to our environment. Can you share your sources where it links our taste for animal flesh is linked to our DNA?
Kretinsky 4y ago
- Responsible slaughtering requires stunning the animal before killing it. - In many countries/biotopes, livestock farming is the only type of farming you can do, because the earth is too poor to have something else than pastures. As such, stopping it may be a net-negative in terms of food production. - Stop thinking that the only way to breed animals is through factory farms. Not everyone is american. - Meat, and animal products (milk, eggs...) are a much better protein source than any plant-based alternative. Be it natural, or the chemical/GMO trash that is served by new foodtech startups. Again, just like you find giant pickups only in the US, many countries outside the US eat meat and breed animals responsibly. You should ask for ethical alternatives, rather than a complete abstinence.
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  Factory farms exist in other countries, not just the US. They exist in China, Europe, etc. The reason why factory farms exist is because it's the cheapest and efficient way to provide animal meat to the masses. You can't do that with grass fed free roaming animal farms. It would be too expensive and require even more land. Why is meat and dairy a better protein source? We don't require tons of protein to thrive [0]. What's important is to have a wholesome diet with a variety of nutrients, not just this obsession with protein. In fact dairy is not ideal for human consumption, see https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/health-concerns-about-dairy https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/he.... PCRM is a group of medical experts providing evidence based health information. Animals know when they are about to be killed - even with 'responsible slaughtering', it's still an act of immense cruelty. Do you want to be stunned and have your throat slit or a bolt shot through your head? Do animals freely give up their life so we can have some temporary pleasure moment in our mouth or do you think they would fight for their life? Why inflict cruelty on sentient beings and destroy our biosphere when we don't need to? We humans have given up other cruel practices so why not give up killing and torturing Billions of animals each year and progress towards a more humane society? If you have no other food sources or have medical issues and need meat to survive then ignore the above. [0] https://gamechangersmovie.com/ https://gamechangersmovie.com/
  - 4y ago
justinclift 4y ago
> Animals have pain receptors like we do. Every fruit and vegetable you eat is also literally screaming in pain as it's killed by you too. Is the problem more that you don't recognise all life forms as being equal, so anything plant based "doesn't count"? Which sounds exactly like the people you're effectively complaining about, except you've decided to favour a different group of organisms than they have. You're no better than they are. :p
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  Let's ignore for a moment that plants don't have nociceptors and instead let's just follow your line of reasoning. The goal is to reduce overall pain & suffering we cause. Which path produces the least amount of pain? !) Animals eat plants. We eat those animals that eat plants and on top of that we also eat plants. 2) We only eat plants.
  - justinclift 4y ago
    > Which path produces the least amount of pain? Clearly, killing all organisms outright so there's nothing left able to reproduce. And that wins by a long shot. Is this really the kind of crap outcome you're aiming for with your line of thought? Or perhaps, just call it a day and move on to hassling some other people instead.
    - uxcolumbo 4y ago
      I get it, it’s hard to give up that juicy meat that gives us pleasure and it’s easier to just blissfully ignore scientific facts, ignore the suffering of animals, ignore biodiversty destruction and instead believe in pseudo science or Reddit headlines like ‘plants scream in pain’. But hard things are worth doing.
      - justinclift 4y ago
        You are the person ignoring facts about suffering you are causing. "Oh, plants don't have nociceptors. Therefore I'm free to abuse them as they can't feel pain!" Well duh, plants evolved a different system to sense the world and communicate. Yet it's clearly more convenient for you to just ignore that, so you spout shit at others, yet not look at your own behaviour. How about fixing yourself first?

trollerator23 4y ago

Sure it is. Just tax it or something.

uxcolumbo 4y ago
Can you provide more details why supporting an industry that is destroying our biosphere is rational?
- trollerator23 4y ago
  Excuse me? Because I like eating delicious beef. How is that "irrational" ? I'll repeat: I like eating steak, and I am willing to pay for it. What's destroying the biosphere is too many humans.
  - uxcolumbo 4y ago
    That isn’t rational - supporting large scale animal agriculture which has been scientifically shown requires more resources and creates more environmental damage than a plant based food systems which are more sustainable. Why would choose something that creates more damage just because it tastes delicious. Why not choose something else that is delicious but gentler to the environment and doesn’t require animals to suffer? Why is it ok to enslave, be cruel and kill a cow just for mouth pleasure, when most of us don’t need to eat animals anymore to survive? If more ppl would be completely or mostly plant based our current population would be more sustainable.
    - trollerator23 3y ago
      Because I like it. Because most humans like it. We have it in our genes. End of the story.
      - uxcolumbo 3y ago
        So because you like the taste of animal flesh it's OK to torture and kill them and in the process also inflict more harm to our environment. Can you share your sources where it links our taste for animal flesh is linked to our DNA?

Kretinsky 4y ago

- Responsible slaughtering requires stunning the animal before killing it. - In many countries/biotopes, livestock farming is the only type of farming you can do, because the earth is too poor to have something else than pastures. As such, stopping it may be a net-negative in terms of food production. - Stop thinking that the only way to breed animals is through factory farms. Not everyone is american. - Meat, and animal products (milk, eggs...) are a much better protein source than any plant-based alternative. Be it natural, or the chemical/GMO trash that is served by new foodtech startups. Again, just like you find giant pickups only in the US, many countries outside the US eat meat and breed animals responsibly. You should ask for ethical alternatives, rather than a complete abstinence.

uxcolumbo 4y ago
Factory farms exist in other countries, not just the US. They exist in China, Europe, etc. The reason why factory farms exist is because it's the cheapest and efficient way to provide animal meat to the masses. You can't do that with grass fed free roaming animal farms. It would be too expensive and require even more land. Why is meat and dairy a better protein source? We don't require tons of protein to thrive [0]. What's important is to have a wholesome diet with a variety of nutrients, not just this obsession with protein. In fact dairy is not ideal for human consumption, see https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/health-concerns-about-dairy https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/he.... PCRM is a group of medical experts providing evidence based health information. Animals know when they are about to be killed - even with 'responsible slaughtering', it's still an act of immense cruelty. Do you want to be stunned and have your throat slit or a bolt shot through your head? Do animals freely give up their life so we can have some temporary pleasure moment in our mouth or do you think they would fight for their life? Why inflict cruelty on sentient beings and destroy our biosphere when we don't need to? We humans have given up other cruel practices so why not give up killing and torturing Billions of animals each year and progress towards a more humane society? If you have no other food sources or have medical issues and need meat to survive then ignore the above. [0] https://gamechangersmovie.com/ https://gamechangersmovie.com/
- 4y ago

justinclift 4y ago

> Animals have pain receptors like we do. Every fruit and vegetable you eat is also literally screaming in pain as it's killed by you too. Is the problem more that you don't recognise all life forms as being equal, so anything plant based "doesn't count"? Which sounds exactly like the people you're effectively complaining about, except you've decided to favour a different group of organisms than they have. You're no better than they are. :p

uxcolumbo 4y ago
Let's ignore for a moment that plants don't have nociceptors and instead let's just follow your line of reasoning. The goal is to reduce overall pain & suffering we cause. Which path produces the least amount of pain? !) Animals eat plants. We eat those animals that eat plants and on top of that we also eat plants. 2) We only eat plants.
- justinclift 4y ago
  > Which path produces the least amount of pain? Clearly, killing all organisms outright so there's nothing left able to reproduce. And that wins by a long shot. Is this really the kind of crap outcome you're aiming for with your line of thought? Or perhaps, just call it a day and move on to hassling some other people instead.
  - uxcolumbo 4y ago
    I get it, it’s hard to give up that juicy meat that gives us pleasure and it’s easier to just blissfully ignore scientific facts, ignore the suffering of animals, ignore biodiversty destruction and instead believe in pseudo science or Reddit headlines like ‘plants scream in pain’. But hard things are worth doing.
    - justinclift 4y ago
      You are the person ignoring facts about suffering you are causing. "Oh, plants don't have nociceptors. Therefore I'm free to abuse them as they can't feel pain!" Well duh, plants evolved a different system to sense the world and communicate. Yet it's clearly more convenient for you to just ignore that, so you spout shit at others, yet not look at your own behaviour. How about fixing yourself first?