4 ms·

Getting tired of this, because the algorithms themselves are worthless. Instead, demand websites that aren't just a recommendation feed. Demand the ability to c

Getting tired of this, because the algorithms themselves are worthless. Instead, demand websites that aren't just a recommendation feed. Demand the ability to categorize and rank content explicitly. The problem is that these websites are creating a feed, and then training themselves based on how you engage with...the feed. It's a toxic feedback loop, with almost no levers for you to interact with. If you get stuck in a rabbit hole, it is difficult to teach it how to get you out. That's independent of the "algorithm" being used, it's a problem with all of them.

cush 4y ago
> ability to categorize and rank content Who has time for this? What about discovering interesting and new content amidst millions of options?
- ZainRiz 4y ago
  No need to make every person categorize/rank their own content. But let them choose which of the 3rd party ranking algorithms they'd like to have serving them their feed today.
  - phailhaus 4y ago
    Why would that help? All the content is uncategorized. So what info can these "3rd party ranking algorithms" use to get you the content you want? You're going to get different flavors of Facebook. Look at what Reddit does: all posts must be submitted to a subreddit, which categorizes it. Each sub upvotes and downvoted that content, which means that the "ranking algorithm" can be dumb as a bag of rocks. At any point, I can choose what content I want to browse without having to "switch algorithms". The media is preoccupied with "the algorithms", but the problem is with websites that are nothing but a recommendation feed choosing from a formless content soup. It's constantly guessing, the best it can do is "you seem to like this account, I will keep giving you stuff from this person and related people". No concept of interests!
- phailhaus 4y ago
  Not you personally, but users in general. See: Reddit. I never "accidentally" get into a conspiracy theory rabbit hole, that's something I can consciously join or unfollow. And because I have an explicit list of subreddits I'm a member of, the platform can much more accurately recommend me content when I'm in the mood to explore.
  - cush 4y ago
    Which is identical to the Twitter Following page. On Reddit, you're still served specific content first based on reddit's algorithm of upvotes (likes/retweets) and comments (replies)
    - phailhaus 4y ago
      Not at all. There's a few major differences: 1. The unit of "following" is a subreddit, not an individual account. This means that your feed might contain a lot of content from a popular subreddit, but never of a single person. In fact, an account's karma on Reddit has no bearing on the reach of its posts. This lets me curate my feed based on the type of content, not based on who posted it and how many followers they have. 2. Because of (1), I have another option to the "front page": browsing a specific subreddit of my choice, where I see posts in basically the same order as everyone else. The closest that Twitter has to this is "Topics", but those are not communities, they are Twitter-curated feeds. You can't make a Topic, and you can't post to one. If your niche interest is not a Topic, you're out of luck, and most subreddits have no analogous Topic. Twitter lets you browse a user's posts, but individuals are high-variance. There's no way to say "show me all this person's tweets related to ML, which is why I followed, not when they talk about cooking." The only way around this is if the author has the prescience to make domain-specific alt accounts. 3. Downvotes. Twitter refuses to let you downvote content, which contributes to its toxicity. Whether you are retweeting to support or to criticize, the outcome is the same: you increase the post's reach. The most outrageous tweets get the most coverage. Reddit's downvote mechanism means that you can signal that a post is inappropriate for a subreddit, which means that the posts in a sub are more relevant to my interests. Twitter has no such option: popular accounts naturally have high reach by default, and the lack of negative signal means that they can only accumulate more reach. The only way to decrease an account's influence is through coordinated unfollowing campaigns, "cancelling" them. Cancel culture isn't really a thing on Reddit because it's not personality-driven.
- ddingus 4y ago
  I do. Tons of people do. As for new stuff, this is how I generally do it: Interact with friends and others near me. We trade all the time, recommend all the time. This is my long standing favorite. Community discussion. Here, for one. This is a strong second. Search, and now it may appear a GPT entity may well serve me up stuff I am going to like and need. See what "the feed" has in it.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  I certainly am not going to take the time to do that. But at the same time, I also completely ignore programmatic recommendations, because I find them terrible. What I do to discover interesting new stuff is to listen to the recommendations of friends, and to check out references or recommendations made from the stuff I already enjoy. Basically, I do what everyone used to do to find new music, but for all other media as well.
  - phailhaus 4y ago
    The beauty is that you don't have to. Do you have to label every post on Reddit? Nope, the community manages that itself.
classified 4y ago
There is one lever left: Stay away from the toxic fast food.

cush 4y ago

> ability to categorize and rank content Who has time for this? What about discovering interesting and new content amidst millions of options?

ZainRiz 4y ago
No need to make every person categorize/rank their own content. But let them choose which of the 3rd party ranking algorithms they'd like to have serving them their feed today.
- phailhaus 4y ago
  Why would that help? All the content is uncategorized. So what info can these "3rd party ranking algorithms" use to get you the content you want? You're going to get different flavors of Facebook. Look at what Reddit does: all posts must be submitted to a subreddit, which categorizes it. Each sub upvotes and downvoted that content, which means that the "ranking algorithm" can be dumb as a bag of rocks. At any point, I can choose what content I want to browse without having to "switch algorithms". The media is preoccupied with "the algorithms", but the problem is with websites that are nothing but a recommendation feed choosing from a formless content soup. It's constantly guessing, the best it can do is "you seem to like this account, I will keep giving you stuff from this person and related people". No concept of interests!
phailhaus 4y ago
Not you personally, but users in general. See: Reddit. I never "accidentally" get into a conspiracy theory rabbit hole, that's something I can consciously join or unfollow. And because I have an explicit list of subreddits I'm a member of, the platform can much more accurately recommend me content when I'm in the mood to explore.
- cush 4y ago
  Which is identical to the Twitter Following page. On Reddit, you're still served specific content first based on reddit's algorithm of upvotes (likes/retweets) and comments (replies)
  - phailhaus 4y ago
    Not at all. There's a few major differences: 1. The unit of "following" is a subreddit, not an individual account. This means that your feed might contain a lot of content from a popular subreddit, but never of a single person. In fact, an account's karma on Reddit has no bearing on the reach of its posts. This lets me curate my feed based on the type of content, not based on who posted it and how many followers they have. 2. Because of (1), I have another option to the "front page": browsing a specific subreddit of my choice, where I see posts in basically the same order as everyone else. The closest that Twitter has to this is "Topics", but those are not communities, they are Twitter-curated feeds. You can't make a Topic, and you can't post to one. If your niche interest is not a Topic, you're out of luck, and most subreddits have no analogous Topic. Twitter lets you browse a user's posts, but individuals are high-variance. There's no way to say "show me all this person's tweets related to ML, which is why I followed, not when they talk about cooking." The only way around this is if the author has the prescience to make domain-specific alt accounts. 3. Downvotes. Twitter refuses to let you downvote content, which contributes to its toxicity. Whether you are retweeting to support or to criticize, the outcome is the same: you increase the post's reach. The most outrageous tweets get the most coverage. Reddit's downvote mechanism means that you can signal that a post is inappropriate for a subreddit, which means that the posts in a sub are more relevant to my interests. Twitter has no such option: popular accounts naturally have high reach by default, and the lack of negative signal means that they can only accumulate more reach. The only way to decrease an account's influence is through coordinated unfollowing campaigns, "cancelling" them. Cancel culture isn't really a thing on Reddit because it's not personality-driven.
ddingus 4y ago
I do. Tons of people do. As for new stuff, this is how I generally do it: Interact with friends and others near me. We trade all the time, recommend all the time. This is my long standing favorite. Community discussion. Here, for one. This is a strong second. Search, and now it may appear a GPT entity may well serve me up stuff I am going to like and need. See what "the feed" has in it.
JohnFen 4y ago
I certainly am not going to take the time to do that. But at the same time, I also completely ignore programmatic recommendations, because I find them terrible. What I do to discover interesting new stuff is to listen to the recommendations of friends, and to check out references or recommendations made from the stuff I already enjoy. Basically, I do what everyone used to do to find new music, but for all other media as well.
- phailhaus 4y ago
  The beauty is that you don't have to. Do you have to label every post on Reddit? Nope, the community manages that itself.

classified 4y ago

There is one lever left: Stay away from the toxic fast food.