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This is a paradox. People create/produce because they want: 1. to be powerful. Being powerful makes them able to consume more, hence being more happy. People d

This is a paradox. People create/produce because they want: 1. to be powerful. Being powerful makes them able to consume more, hence being more happy. People do everything to be more comfortable. 2. to solve peoples problems, make the world better place = to feed their internal ego, prove the world that he/she can be helpful. This is a subliminal instinct of humanbeing having the main goal is being powerful among other species. Being powerful - see point 1. 3. to make money. Having more money makes people able to consume more, without any problems. Aren't there any producer without a goal gaining power to consume more? I don't know, maybe. Don't we always say that if we want people use our products first we should ask ourselves would I use it? If yes, this means you are a producer, because you made a problem-solving product. But this also means you are a consumer, because you would like to use it. Mark uses facebook. Is he a producer or consumer? Do you know any producer that don't consume 100 times more than avarage consumers?!

batista 15y ago
Lots of producers dont consume much. And surely not 100x more than the average consumer. You think Linus goes on reading blogs and watching movies all day? Steve Jobs was quite a miimalist in how he lived. He even debated for months what furniture to buy -- and he lived for a while in an unfurnished apartment. A huge lot of musicians when asked in interviews say the don't listen to much music besides what they work on. Etc...
- plainOldText 15y ago
  "You think Linus goes on reading blogs and watching movies all day?" I think I'll just make it my motivational quote this month. :)
- zeynalov 15y ago
  Sorry but I think you have no idea about Steve's personal life. Or you didn't understand what is being a consumer. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Gates fan, I love Apple, I have 9 apple computers at home. Before 90s he was a cool geek, famous millionaire guy, consuming too much clothes. He had always trendy fashion look. He bought one of most expensive cars when he was in his 20s. A Porsche then Mercedes. In his dashing days at Apple and NeXT, he weared the most expensive Brioni suits. He had a Plane. A super expensive plane. Do you know why? He said: "What I really need is a plane where I can take my family to Hawaii on vacation, go to the East Coast." He loved to stay in expensive resort hotels. Consumed too much there. Sorry but for me staying in a resort hotel doing nothing but looking to the sea 20 days is one of last things what would I do before I die.
  - dan00 15y ago
    Before 90s he was a cool geek, famous millionaire guy, consuming too much clothes. He had always trendy fashion look. He bought one of most expensive cars when he was in his 20s. A Porsche then Mercedes. In his dashing days at Apple and NeXT, he weared the most expensive Brioni suits. He had a Plane. A super expensive plane. Do you know why? He said: "What I really need is a plane where I can take my family to Hawaii on vacation, go to the East Coast." He loved to stay in expensive resort hotels. Consumed too much there. Sorry but for me staying in a resort hotel doing nothing but looking to the sea 20 days is one of last things what would I do before I die. What are you aiming for here? Has Steve been happier in this part of his life? Why has he changed his life style? To get unhappier?
    - specialk16 15y ago
      He is saying that the statement... >Steve Jobs was quite a miimalist in how he lived. He even debated for months what furniture to buy -- and he lived for a while in an unfurnished apartment. ...is factually incorrect.
  - batista 15y ago
    Sorry but I think you have no idea about Steve's personal life. Or you didn't understand what is being a consumer. Sorry, but I have a pretty good idea. I've also read the book. I think it's you that you didn't understand what is being a "consumer" IN THE CONTEXT of this discussion. It has nothing to do with buying expensive cars, suits, lear jets and stuff. It has nothing to do even with buying lots and lots of them. Even if Jobs had a garage with 1,000 luxury cars and a walk in closet with 10,000 designer suits it wouldn't matter at all in the discussion we're having. I might have muddled the waters a little with the "no-furniture room" example, but the discussion we're having (and the original article on reddit too), is about producing vs consuming as a life balance. Not about having less. As for my "no furniture" argument, that was not meant to imply that not buying stuff matters, just that consuming was not his goal, whereas building products (and companies) was. Nobody would argue that Job's life was much more about producing than consuming stuff. He din't spend his hours in luxury car shows, nor in fashion boutiques, he spend them thinking about business and products. And I'd say he even did so while staying in "expensive resort hotels". The main criterion is if the items consumed are the GOAL of your life or just DECORATION. To put it in other words, Jobs was no Paris Hilton, nor "Hoarders" material.
- specialk16 15y ago
  Quite the minimalist... sure, changing his Mercedes-Benz every 6 months.
techiferous 15y ago
Not sure why you are being down-voted, since your points further the discussion. Anyway, consider Buckminster Fuller as a counterexample to some of your points. He definitely had the spirit of a producer. Here is a quote from http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/automobiles/collectibles/15BUCKY.html?pagewanted=print http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/automobiles/collectibles/1... : Fuller was born in Massachusetts in 1895 and died in 1983. He was admitted to Harvard twice, and twice expelled. He went from job to job until he was broke. After illness killed his young daughter, he had a revelation. He determined to make his life “an experiment to find what a single individual can contribute to changing the world and benefiting all humanity.”
wahnfrieden 15y ago
More money enables you to consume more. But some see the benefits of production and do it on principle. Not everyone is a corrupt Roman senator out of Fellini's Satyricon when they have the financial support. Though many are, granted, the cynical view is not necessarily the correct one.
dan00 15y ago
This is a paradox. People create/produce because they want: 1. to be powerful. Being powerful makes them able to consume more, hence being more happy. People do everything to be more comfortable. Some people produce, are creative, because they just enjoy it. So they aren't doing it for something else, because the doing itself is fulfilling. Being powerful makes them able to consume more, hence being more happy. You definitely don't get happier by consuming more. Why aren't modern western societies happier than the poorer ones? People do everything to be more comfortable. Sure they do, but they don't get happier by doing it, that's the point. I think it's just a evolutionary strategy to save energy.
imgabe 15y ago
Sometimes there's just something you want to exist that doesn't and you need to make it. Look at how many artists and writers toiled at their craft for their entire lives without any reward. I doubt many of them had the goal of becoming more powerful in order to consume more stuff. At least if they did, there were no doubt countless easier ways they could have gone about it.
jeremysalwen 15y ago
> 2. to solve peoples problems, make the world better place = to feed their internal ego, prove the world that he/she can be helpful. This is a subliminal instinct of humanbeing having the main goal is being powerful among other species. Being powerful - see point 1. Speak for yourself. Actually, it seems like you already have spoken for yourself. What I mean to say is "don't pretend to speak for everyone when you are only speaking for yourself". It's mighty presumptuous of you to claim that you know the motivations of everyone in the world who is a producer. My quote isn't the only example of this in your post, but it's the most egregious.

batista 15y ago

Lots of producers dont consume much. And surely not 100x more than the average consumer. You think Linus goes on reading blogs and watching movies all day? Steve Jobs was quite a miimalist in how he lived. He even debated for months what furniture to buy -- and he lived for a while in an unfurnished apartment. A huge lot of musicians when asked in interviews say the don't listen to much music besides what they work on. Etc...

plainOldText 15y ago
"You think Linus goes on reading blogs and watching movies all day?" I think I'll just make it my motivational quote this month. :)
zeynalov 15y ago
Sorry but I think you have no idea about Steve's personal life. Or you didn't understand what is being a consumer. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Gates fan, I love Apple, I have 9 apple computers at home. Before 90s he was a cool geek, famous millionaire guy, consuming too much clothes. He had always trendy fashion look. He bought one of most expensive cars when he was in his 20s. A Porsche then Mercedes. In his dashing days at Apple and NeXT, he weared the most expensive Brioni suits. He had a Plane. A super expensive plane. Do you know why? He said: "What I really need is a plane where I can take my family to Hawaii on vacation, go to the East Coast." He loved to stay in expensive resort hotels. Consumed too much there. Sorry but for me staying in a resort hotel doing nothing but looking to the sea 20 days is one of last things what would I do before I die.
- dan00 15y ago
  Before 90s he was a cool geek, famous millionaire guy, consuming too much clothes. He had always trendy fashion look. He bought one of most expensive cars when he was in his 20s. A Porsche then Mercedes. In his dashing days at Apple and NeXT, he weared the most expensive Brioni suits. He had a Plane. A super expensive plane. Do you know why? He said: "What I really need is a plane where I can take my family to Hawaii on vacation, go to the East Coast." He loved to stay in expensive resort hotels. Consumed too much there. Sorry but for me staying in a resort hotel doing nothing but looking to the sea 20 days is one of last things what would I do before I die. What are you aiming for here? Has Steve been happier in this part of his life? Why has he changed his life style? To get unhappier?
  - specialk16 15y ago
    He is saying that the statement... >Steve Jobs was quite a miimalist in how he lived. He even debated for months what furniture to buy -- and he lived for a while in an unfurnished apartment. ...is factually incorrect.
- batista 15y ago
  Sorry but I think you have no idea about Steve's personal life. Or you didn't understand what is being a consumer. Sorry, but I have a pretty good idea. I've also read the book. I think it's you that you didn't understand what is being a "consumer" IN THE CONTEXT of this discussion. It has nothing to do with buying expensive cars, suits, lear jets and stuff. It has nothing to do even with buying lots and lots of them. Even if Jobs had a garage with 1,000 luxury cars and a walk in closet with 10,000 designer suits it wouldn't matter at all in the discussion we're having. I might have muddled the waters a little with the "no-furniture room" example, but the discussion we're having (and the original article on reddit too), is about producing vs consuming as a life balance. Not about having less. As for my "no furniture" argument, that was not meant to imply that not buying stuff matters, just that consuming was not his goal, whereas building products (and companies) was. Nobody would argue that Job's life was much more about producing than consuming stuff. He din't spend his hours in luxury car shows, nor in fashion boutiques, he spend them thinking about business and products. And I'd say he even did so while staying in "expensive resort hotels". The main criterion is if the items consumed are the GOAL of your life or just DECORATION. To put it in other words, Jobs was no Paris Hilton, nor "Hoarders" material.
specialk16 15y ago
Quite the minimalist... sure, changing his Mercedes-Benz every 6 months.

techiferous 15y ago

Not sure why you are being down-voted, since your points further the discussion. Anyway, consider Buckminster Fuller as a counterexample to some of your points. He definitely had the spirit of a producer. Here is a quote from http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/automobiles/collectibles/15BUCKY.html?pagewanted=print http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/automobiles/collectibles/1... : Fuller was born in Massachusetts in 1895 and died in 1983. He was admitted to Harvard twice, and twice expelled. He went from job to job until he was broke. After illness killed his young daughter, he had a revelation. He determined to make his life “an experiment to find what a single individual can contribute to changing the world and benefiting all humanity.”

wahnfrieden 15y ago

More money enables you to consume more. But some see the benefits of production and do it on principle. Not everyone is a corrupt Roman senator out of Fellini's Satyricon when they have the financial support. Though many are, granted, the cynical view is not necessarily the correct one.

dan00 15y ago

This is a paradox. People create/produce because they want: 1. to be powerful. Being powerful makes them able to consume more, hence being more happy. People do everything to be more comfortable. Some people produce, are creative, because they just enjoy it. So they aren't doing it for something else, because the doing itself is fulfilling. Being powerful makes them able to consume more, hence being more happy. You definitely don't get happier by consuming more. Why aren't modern western societies happier than the poorer ones? People do everything to be more comfortable. Sure they do, but they don't get happier by doing it, that's the point. I think it's just a evolutionary strategy to save energy.

imgabe 15y ago

Sometimes there's just something you want to exist that doesn't and you need to make it. Look at how many artists and writers toiled at their craft for their entire lives without any reward. I doubt many of them had the goal of becoming more powerful in order to consume more stuff. At least if they did, there were no doubt countless easier ways they could have gone about it.

jeremysalwen 15y ago

> 2. to solve peoples problems, make the world better place = to feed their internal ego, prove the world that he/she can be helpful. This is a subliminal instinct of humanbeing having the main goal is being powerful among other species. Being powerful - see point 1. Speak for yourself. Actually, it seems like you already have spoken for yourself. What I mean to say is "don't pretend to speak for everyone when you are only speaking for yourself". It's mighty presumptuous of you to claim that you know the motivations of everyone in the world who is a producer. My quote isn't the only example of this in your post, but it's the most egregious.