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I'm of the opinion that people who are known for x, e.g., their opinions on FOSS, should stay in their lane and only really discuss topics they have a good gras

I'm of the opinion that people who are known for x, e.g., their opinions on FOSS, should stay in their lane and only really discuss topics they have a good grasp of, otherwise they're soon going to be lambasted for any momentary lapse of judgement or lack of knowledge. That isn't to say that I'm saying Stallman should shut the fuck up about anything that isn't software, but I am saying that it's a problem that would have been easily avoided with common sense applied. If you are in the public eye, and your career depends on your reputation and public image, it would be beneficial to have a third-party coach you through basics of interacting with press, thinking many times before speaking etc. Nobody asked him for these opinions. He's the last person I'd want an opinion on these topics from, and all I want to hear about from Stallman is FOSS, maybe culture. Nothing else, that's not what he's known for.

david_draco 4y ago
You are mistaken to think Stallman is primarily a software person. He is a leader of a social movement, with social goals (freedom from the shackles of proprietary software) achieved by strategic investment in software development and legal battles over the decades. From this lens, it is quite his lane.
annoyingnoob 4y ago
I find it hard to support him because I do not trust that he will not continue being himself and create another controversy in the future.
- hammyhavoc 4y ago
  I don't think people like Stallman need to be actively supported. If what they have to say is valuable then that's what counts, especially if he is genuine in his activism. Whilst Stallman has made a lot of very astute and smart observations and contributions throughout his lifetime, he's increasingly irrelevant in a world that's changed many times over since he was last truly relevant to what's happening for anybody. He's a great speaker and writer, he's fascinating to listen to, but some arguments of his lack substance and solutions other than "this is bad, so don't use it".
raxxorraxor 4y ago
> going to be lambasted for any momentary lapse of judgement or lack of knowledge. I believe at some point the problem must be solved at the source. Perhaps idealistic, but I believe it can be possible if values adapt as they did in the past. While his statements certainly are controversial and everyone is very free to disagree, the real problem are those that decry verbal opinions and demand consequences. Often the most judgmental that have most shortcomings themselves and I believe that was fairly transparent with vocal accusers of Stallman. Disappointing in recent years where companies and institutions that reacted full of panic at any hint of a negative press and just ruthlessly evicted employees to not succumb to a "toxic work atmosphere" (which they have just created by reacting as they did). Having the back of your employees in principle until guilt is proved is a value itself. Something self-evident but what many companies just as evidently lack. Otherwise we need to adhere to the old rules of PR and that often means that we will be ruled by stupidity or some emotional gratification by randomly formed groups. And the rules of PR will also apply to everyone that has a public persona on the net. They would need some form of PR firm or have a good talent see through emotional needs of listeners. I don't believe that your career does depend on reputation as much as it did in the past for that matter. Just because there are many more channels today. There still is a mainstream, but it lost relevance in comparison.
sshine 4y ago
> people who are known for x, e.g., their opinions on FOSS, should stay in their lane Sorry, but no. You don’t get to put people in lanes. They real issue is, once you grow a following, whatever you say will be magnified. It doesn’t matter what you mean when you broadcast; you have gradually less control of what is understood. So you need to think about how things are received. Eccentrics have it hard.
- hammyhavoc 4y ago
  I'm not putting anyone in their lane, I'm saying they should stay in it if they want to continue doing what they're doing otherwise at some point it's going to inevitably turn to shit for them. Do I want to hear what x thinks about y if y isn't x's area of expertise? No, I'd rather hear from someone whose area of expertise is actually y, otherwise why am I being presented that information like it's somehow meaningful having come from x because they have a following? It's a logical fallacy. Cults of personality are damaging to the causes they purport to support through their activism.
  - CogitoCogito 4y ago
    > Do I want to hear what x thinks about y if y isn't x's area of expertise? No, I'd rather hear from someone whose area of expertise is actually y, otherwise why am I being presented that information like it's somehow meaningful having come from x because they have a following? So don't listen to him?
    - hammyhavoc 4y ago
      Who says I do? You seem to miss the point of my comment entirely. If talking heads want to continue doing what they're doing, they should stick to what they know about and keep their opinions on sex between adults and minors to themselves. Given his age and eloquence, there was absolutely zero excusing what's been said. OK, he "learned" from it after being effectively cancelled and pushed out of doing what he does, but so what? Somebody who purports to be a source of moral righteousness who judges others and tells others how to live in terms of software and what services and hardware they use had an appalling take on something very important, ergo maybe they aren't someone to listen to anymore if they couldn't reign themselves in over something so basic.

david_draco 4y ago

You are mistaken to think Stallman is primarily a software person. He is a leader of a social movement, with social goals (freedom from the shackles of proprietary software) achieved by strategic investment in software development and legal battles over the decades. From this lens, it is quite his lane.

annoyingnoob 4y ago

I find it hard to support him because I do not trust that he will not continue being himself and create another controversy in the future.

hammyhavoc 4y ago
I don't think people like Stallman need to be actively supported. If what they have to say is valuable then that's what counts, especially if he is genuine in his activism. Whilst Stallman has made a lot of very astute and smart observations and contributions throughout his lifetime, he's increasingly irrelevant in a world that's changed many times over since he was last truly relevant to what's happening for anybody. He's a great speaker and writer, he's fascinating to listen to, but some arguments of his lack substance and solutions other than "this is bad, so don't use it".

raxxorraxor 4y ago

> going to be lambasted for any momentary lapse of judgement or lack of knowledge. I believe at some point the problem must be solved at the source. Perhaps idealistic, but I believe it can be possible if values adapt as they did in the past. While his statements certainly are controversial and everyone is very free to disagree, the real problem are those that decry verbal opinions and demand consequences. Often the most judgmental that have most shortcomings themselves and I believe that was fairly transparent with vocal accusers of Stallman. Disappointing in recent years where companies and institutions that reacted full of panic at any hint of a negative press and just ruthlessly evicted employees to not succumb to a "toxic work atmosphere" (which they have just created by reacting as they did). Having the back of your employees in principle until guilt is proved is a value itself. Something self-evident but what many companies just as evidently lack. Otherwise we need to adhere to the old rules of PR and that often means that we will be ruled by stupidity or some emotional gratification by randomly formed groups. And the rules of PR will also apply to everyone that has a public persona on the net. They would need some form of PR firm or have a good talent see through emotional needs of listeners. I don't believe that your career does depend on reputation as much as it did in the past for that matter. Just because there are many more channels today. There still is a mainstream, but it lost relevance in comparison.

sshine 4y ago

> people who are known for x, e.g., their opinions on FOSS, should stay in their lane Sorry, but no. You don’t get to put people in lanes. They real issue is, once you grow a following, whatever you say will be magnified. It doesn’t matter what you mean when you broadcast; you have gradually less control of what is understood. So you need to think about how things are received. Eccentrics have it hard.

hammyhavoc 4y ago
I'm not putting anyone in their lane, I'm saying they should stay in it if they want to continue doing what they're doing otherwise at some point it's going to inevitably turn to shit for them. Do I want to hear what x thinks about y if y isn't x's area of expertise? No, I'd rather hear from someone whose area of expertise is actually y, otherwise why am I being presented that information like it's somehow meaningful having come from x because they have a following? It's a logical fallacy. Cults of personality are damaging to the causes they purport to support through their activism.
- CogitoCogito 4y ago
  > Do I want to hear what x thinks about y if y isn't x's area of expertise? No, I'd rather hear from someone whose area of expertise is actually y, otherwise why am I being presented that information like it's somehow meaningful having come from x because they have a following? So don't listen to him?
  - hammyhavoc 4y ago
    Who says I do? You seem to miss the point of my comment entirely. If talking heads want to continue doing what they're doing, they should stick to what they know about and keep their opinions on sex between adults and minors to themselves. Given his age and eloquence, there was absolutely zero excusing what's been said. OK, he "learned" from it after being effectively cancelled and pushed out of doing what he does, but so what? Somebody who purports to be a source of moral righteousness who judges others and tells others how to live in terms of software and what services and hardware they use had an appalling take on something very important, ergo maybe they aren't someone to listen to anymore if they couldn't reign themselves in over something so basic.