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With 70% of revenues from hundred million battery powered devices a year is a big deal.

mocko 4y ago
Well, hmm - is it? I'd naively imagine cobalt content is proportional to battery size, and while Apple sells a lot of devices they aren't large energy-hungry ones. Surely far more of the world's battery production (by watt-hours or kg, take your pick) goes into cars and grid storage than iPhones?
- bayindirh 4y ago
  When run at full-steam, MacBooks, iPads and iPhones can churn significant amount of data for their sizes, and use significant amount of energy. The batteries sold by Apple are pretty dense for their sizes, and they sell a lot of them. It will definitely add up.
  - mocko 4y ago
    Sure, I'm not hating on Apple - it's a perfectly reasonable thing for them to do. But I'd question how much of global cobalt production was ever going into macbooks/iphones rather than electric cars, lawnmowers, hoovers and whatever else. This sets a good precedent but we'd need other manufacturers (who I'd guess are more cost-conscious) to follow suit before it changes much.
- lockhouse 4y ago
  Apparently an iPhone uses about 8 grams of cobalt. Considering how many units are shipped annually, that adds up to quite a lot actually.
- alfor 4y ago
  The applications that don’t need the highest energy density are shifting away from cobalt.
- ben_w 4y ago
  Hmm… > 232 million iPhones, 61 million iPads and 26 million Mac and MacBook… - (last year) https://www.businessofapps.com/data/apple-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/apple-statistics/ I'll assume the batteries are 8 Wh for iPhone, 30 Wh for iPad, 52 Wh for the Macs[0]: = (232 * 8) + (61 * 30) + (26 * 52) = 5038 MWh = 5 GWh Which is more than I was expecting, but at the same time Tesla is on track for 1.8 million cars this year at a minimum of 54 kWh each = 97.2 GWh So, yeah; good on Apple, more of this please from other electronics companies, still tiny compared to automotive. [0] plausible guesses only because I don't have a breakdown of sales by model and I don't care enough to go looking
  - xxs 4y ago
    >I'll assume the batteries are 8 Wh for iPhone 8Wh is exceptionally low (even guessing), it's just 2.22Ah for a Li-Ion (cobalt based). IPhone battery is 3.2Ah ~ 11.5Wh. 52 Wh for the Mac; that's a rather low estimate for a Mac, it has 3 cells in series, likely 2 or 3 in parallel. 2.8-3Ah per cell (at 3.6 nominal voltage)
    - ben_w 4y ago
      Depends on the model, the SE is 7.82 Wh and that model is still on sale. But even doubling the combined total, let alone a mere extra 3 Wh * 232e6 = 696 MWh = 0.7 GWh, Apple is still a small battery user compared to Tesla cars.
      - xxs 4y ago
        I didn't doubt the conclusion, just the estimate was extremely low, I'd just not call it 'plausible'.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  > goes into cars Most EVs worldwide are powered by cobalt-free LFP batteries. A decent fraction of EVs sold in the US are also LFP powered (all standard range Model 3 & Y). Cobalt is a short-term problem that'll be a memory a few years from now.
detourdog 4y ago
Efficiency is always a big deal and at Apple's scale any slice of a percent is great. The supply chain for these materials seems to have predominately shifted to an internal resource as opposed to an external cost variable. This process also started small and slow but is starting to snowball. Apple has developed a supply chain that is efficient and still gaining efficiencies. Not to mention all the social and environmental issues.

Well, hmm - is it? I'd naively imagine cobalt content is proportional to battery size, and while Apple sells a lot of devices they aren't large energy-hungry ones. Surely far more of the world's battery production (by watt-hours or kg, take your pick) goes into cars and grid storage than iPhones?

bayindirh 4y ago
When run at full-steam, MacBooks, iPads and iPhones can churn significant amount of data for their sizes, and use significant amount of energy. The batteries sold by Apple are pretty dense for their sizes, and they sell a lot of them. It will definitely add up.
- mocko 4y ago
  Sure, I'm not hating on Apple - it's a perfectly reasonable thing for them to do. But I'd question how much of global cobalt production was ever going into macbooks/iphones rather than electric cars, lawnmowers, hoovers and whatever else. This sets a good precedent but we'd need other manufacturers (who I'd guess are more cost-conscious) to follow suit before it changes much.
lockhouse 4y ago
Apparently an iPhone uses about 8 grams of cobalt. Considering how many units are shipped annually, that adds up to quite a lot actually.
alfor 4y ago
The applications that don’t need the highest energy density are shifting away from cobalt.
ben_w 4y ago
Hmm… > 232 million iPhones, 61 million iPads and 26 million Mac and MacBook… - (last year) https://www.businessofapps.com/data/apple-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/apple-statistics/ I'll assume the batteries are 8 Wh for iPhone, 30 Wh for iPad, 52 Wh for the Macs[0]: = (232 * 8) + (61 * 30) + (26 * 52) = 5038 MWh = 5 GWh Which is more than I was expecting, but at the same time Tesla is on track for 1.8 million cars this year at a minimum of 54 kWh each = 97.2 GWh So, yeah; good on Apple, more of this please from other electronics companies, still tiny compared to automotive. [0] plausible guesses only because I don't have a breakdown of sales by model and I don't care enough to go looking
- xxs 4y ago
  >I'll assume the batteries are 8 Wh for iPhone 8Wh is exceptionally low (even guessing), it's just 2.22Ah for a Li-Ion (cobalt based). IPhone battery is 3.2Ah ~ 11.5Wh. 52 Wh for the Mac; that's a rather low estimate for a Mac, it has 3 cells in series, likely 2 or 3 in parallel. 2.8-3Ah per cell (at 3.6 nominal voltage)
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Depends on the model, the SE is 7.82 Wh and that model is still on sale. But even doubling the combined total, let alone a mere extra 3 Wh * 232e6 = 696 MWh = 0.7 GWh, Apple is still a small battery user compared to Tesla cars.
    - xxs 4y ago
      I didn't doubt the conclusion, just the estimate was extremely low, I'd just not call it 'plausible'.
rootusrootus 4y ago
> goes into cars Most EVs worldwide are powered by cobalt-free LFP batteries. A decent fraction of EVs sold in the US are also LFP powered (all standard range Model 3 & Y). Cobalt is a short-term problem that'll be a memory a few years from now.

detourdog 4y ago

Efficiency is always a big deal and at Apple's scale any slice of a percent is great. The supply chain for these materials seems to have predominately shifted to an internal resource as opposed to an external cost variable. This process also started small and slow but is starting to snowball. Apple has developed a supply chain that is efficient and still gaining efficiencies. Not to mention all the social and environmental issues.